The Basement Mechanic's Guide to Testing Perpetual Motion Machines.. . http://www.lhup.edu/~DSIMANEK/museum/test-pm.htm A very good guide to why you can't do it and what to look for when people think they have done it or CLAIM they think they have done it (eg Steorn). There's a very subtle and serious perpetual motion machine's 1st cousin in the latest Scientific American. It's actually an inertialess drive which uses confusion about relativistic effects to convince its highly capable inventor and numerous other people and parts of NASA's brain that it violates Maxwell's laws and generates net thrust using light beamed internally. It doesn't. One of these days something will violate Maxwell's "Laws" but, alas, this isn't it. Shame though, I'm still waiting for the flying cars, and this would be a definite starter for them. Russell -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist