> James; you're into this; are there estimates somewhere on > just how much land area it takes to support (energy, > significant quantity of food, etc) each person... That depends greatly on how you live. There is one family of 4 who get more than half their needs (more like 3/4) from 1/5th acre. http://www.pathtofreedom.com But they live in a way that is significantly different than you or I. They use arms and legs and brains. They are still dependant on the city for water (although a well could remove that) and on waste cooking oil for automobile fuel. I believe they heat with "natural" gas, but they are working on adding a wood stove so that should end soon. BTW, I now heat with wood and solar only. There are food items that really can not be produced in such a small space and must be purchased from outside if you eat them. Beans, flour, yeast, oil, salt. Meat production is not an option except for eggs, possibly fish and the occasional chicken or duck which is good enough, I guess. Milk from a goat or two. Just planting a garden is a good way to start. http://techref.massmind.org/techref/other/gardens.htm http://techref.massmind.org/techref/other/garden/fencehouse.htm Chickens are just wonderful if done right: http://techref.massmind.org/techref/other/chickens.htm PV is great: http://techref.massmind.org/techref/other/solar/case1.htm Woodstoves are fantastic: One of these days I must put up some pictures and a description of mine. Ah, I could talk about this stuff all day. --- James Newton, massmind.org Knowledge Archiver james@massmind.org 1-619-652-0593 fax:1-208-279-8767 http://www.massmind.org Saving what YOU know. -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist