> A problem is that nit many people have the glint in their > eyes, the fire in their bellie *AND* the money in their > pockets to buy an efficient and planet saving but large, > heavy and low power density Stirling (not Sterling) engine > when there are many many nastier alternatives. And yet there ARE people, however few, who DO have all that and a raging hard on for Stirling engines. Where is even ONE operating stirling engine that is actually doing its promised job, generating power for someone, cost effectivly, even NOT INCLUDING the development costs? > I suggest you > ask all the people on their electric commuter car-cycles (of > the sort that you lust after) who zip past you as you sit in > traffic queues where to buy the stirlings. The answer is, of > course, the same place that they bought their (non existent) > car-cycles from. http://www.cyclecar.com/?id1:20593 Several solid models too choose from. $3-$5K http://www.rhoadescarshowroom.com/jumpshow.htm Satisfied customers. http://www.sunvee.com/ Bike car from a Rhoades with electric motors and solar panel. Doing it's job, moveing things from point a to b without problems. http://www.bikemania.biz/Quad_4_Wheel_Bicycle_p/palm_quadcycle.htm Quad 4 Wheel Roadster Bicycle by Palm $1780+ http://www.trimuter.com/Big-Wheel-Electric-Assist-C9.aspx Electric assist recumbent trike $3,200. http://www.cyclecar.com/ Sells a very well made Bicycle Car in several models. http://www.go-one.de/ukindex.shtml Go-One http://www.velomobiel.nl Mango, Quest, etc. http://www.cab-bike.com/english/ Cab-Bike http://www.leitra.dk/ Leitra http://www.velomobileusa.com/ Alleweder If your commute is 10 miles or so, all of these are viable options. > ie if you are a fanatic greenie alternate > energyiser and a century or so ahead of uour time and if your > home heat energy comes from the Methane digester in your > backyard, fuelled from your families excrement and that of > your chickens and pigs, then you may be willing to buy a > car-cycle at the ridiculous prices they cost nowadays. And a > Stirling energy converter as well. The problem is, without > the volume you don't get the product and without the product > you don't get the volume. > > > I challenge ANYONE to show me a sterling engine ANYWHERE in ANY > > application that has EVER recouped what it cost. > > As an example of something that "should" have been commercial > gargoyle the Rice Husk Stirling. This was good enough that ex > Sunpower stirling > (AFAIR) empolees actually spin it off and sought to commercialise it. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=Rice+Husk+Stirling+Sunpowe r%2C+Inc&btnG=Search shows 36 hits. None of them is the company that makes it. None of them shows a currently running unit. Even the prototype broke down and was removed. http://www.stirlingengine.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000019&top ic_id=Power-producing%20Stirling%20engines&topic= "During the next 4 years here in Bangladesh we went through three iterations of design modification and fabrication in a facility we had set up near Dhaka. In this process many snags in the prototype design were worked out but we continued to have problems with lack of durability in the Ericsson linkage which incorporated a bell crank system to drive the displacer." Followed by the standard excuse of, e.g. "we fixed that but then our funding ran out." Well, after 4 years, duh... How many years of funding will it take to show that they aren't reliable? "The compressor "fix" worked initially, but when the compressor itself wore out the linkage again took the load and eventually the likleyhood of mechanical failure increased. This and other problems, including increasing costs, eventually put the engine into mothballs, though some are still being nursed along by a few dedicated individuals." > The problem was, even third world farmers didn't care enough > to use rice husks as an energy source. When you can run a > nice little double flying horse brand diesel to run your > water pump, who wants to use rice husks. And yet, these solar cooking ovens seem to be quite popular... Even very technologically advanced versions are currently working in various places all over the world... http://techref.massmind.org/techref/other/solarovens.htm It sure as heck looks like these people have the technical ability to couple a solar collector with a stirling engine: http://www.auroville.org/society/solarkitchen.htm > I'm surprised that someone as starry eyed in the eco sphgere > as James doesn't see that the Stirling is another car-cycle metaphor. It isn't. As you can see from the links above, there are lots of people using car-cycles. The /electric/ car cycles are questionable because if you use the full range of the battery, they don't last long enough to justify the expense. But short range, or non-electric (pedal only or small gas engine) car-cycles are becoming popular. I can rent one for the day at a local "village" to drive around and see the sites with my family. > Just to spoil the picture there are people selling small and > veruy very very expensive stirling cycle devices to the > military. Very niche market. The government will buy anything. > An the Whispergen is going to spoil your day sometime soon, > or that's what the imvestors hop who are still putting big > bucks into its development. At present it fits our model BUT > the orders they have look set to spoil it. Forward sorders > are AFAIR around 100,000 and cost is thousands of dollars > each ($4000?) AND the buyers intend making a profit from > them. Will that meet your challengs when/if it happens? Absolutly. I'll be happy to eat my words. > And, I'll show you my idea working when I get it working :-) > I'm not at all "starry eyed" about it - just think that a > fairly basic design with a certain magical variation on > what's usually done should be commercially viable. I hope it > may interest Whispergen :-) Best of luck. --- James. -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist