> -----Original Message-----
> From: piclist-bounces@mit.edu 
> [mailto:piclist-bounces@mit.edu] On Behalf Of Gus S Calabrese
> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 3:09 AM
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
> Subject: Re: [OT] a definite blood.boiler Wheeeeee !
> 
> 
> On 2006-Aug 05, at 08:08hrs AM, Tony Smith wrote:
> 
> > On 2006-Aug 05, at 02:16hrs AM, Tony Smith wrote:
> >
> >>> Subject: Re: [OT] a definite blood.boiler Wheeeeee !
> >>>
> >>> The mob voted, you didn't, so you can't really complain!  :)
> >>>
> >>> Tony
> >>
> >> Do you say that jokingly or do you believe the members of the mob 
> >> should rule ?
> >
> >
> > Well, by definition, democracy is mob rule.
> >
> > The only way to stop mob rule is to out-vote the mob. ^1^  By not 
> > voting, you're a non-participant. ^2^ You can either 
> abolish voting (a 
> > meritocracy, perhaps?), get political, stage a coup or sit about 
> > complaining ^3^.
> >
> > Australia has also compulsory voting, you get fined if you 
> don't show 
> > up.  ^4^
> >
> > This has the added bonus where you can laugh at people who put 'I 
> > fish/shoot/play banjo and I vote' stickers on their
> >
> > Tony
> >
> > ^1^  Oppose mob rule is another way.  Stop them every way 
> you can from 
> > making decisions for you or others.
> > ^2^  Voting does not make you a participant.  Simple math 
> demonstrates 
> > that your vote is worth less than a plugged EURO.
> > ^3^ Abolish voting for most things ( 98%)   Give representatives
> > decision making
> > power over the remaining 2%.
> > ^4^  So one might show up, punch a chad and wobble on home, 
> proud to 
> > have dodged a fine.
> > AGSC
> 
> 
> Say, you're not writing this from a little shack in Montana, are you?
> ( Your question appears to be kind of an ad hominem  )
> 
> 1. How do you (or have you) oppose mob rule?  By not voting 
> and then complaining?  Hardly 2. Voting is participation.  
> Lobbying is a step up from that, getting elected even better. 
>  ---^ Well yes you are right.... participating in mob rule 
> ...^ ^ Lobbying, voting and holding office is either 
> participating in group rule or a
> criminal oligarchy   and what I mean by that sometimes the  
> politicians ( a small group )
> take it upon themselves to make secret deals and rule 
> illegitimately. ^
> 
> 3. You don't vote for many things.  You vote for someone with 
> similar views to yours, who then votes (legislates) on your behalf.
> 4. You don't have to worry about that.
> 
> What exactly are the mob doing that you don't like?  No-one 
> likes mob rule, but unless you want be be entirely 
> self-sufficient, you're stuck with it.
> Nobody is forcing you to participate in society under mob 
> rule.  And no cheating on the self-sufficiency, no trips into 
> town to stock up on stuff you can't make yourself, that's 
> relying on the mob.  (Bonus test: how do you make a pencil?)
> 
> I guess that's what 'no man is an island' means.
> 
> Tony
> 
> ^ Wow Tony  I was commenting on your comments until I got to 
> " no one is forcing you to participate...."
> Where you live ... are taxes optional?  Is attending 
> elementary school optional?  Where you live ....  are
> imminent domain laws not in effect.....   I could go on for a 
> long time.
> Plus you do not read other peoples missives very carefully.  
> I said nothing about self-sufficiency, in fact I am a 100%
> believer in cooperation among freely consenting buyers and sellers.   
> I think you have jumped to massive conclusions about me that 
> are not suggested by what I have said.
> I am terminating my participation in this discussion because 
> it appears to be headed toward useless name-calling.
> AGSC ^


You're right, I did jump to conclusions, mainly because I've no idea what
you are bitching about.

You say you don't like the status quo, and when asked what you'd prefer, you
state 'you tell me'.  If you're going to complain, at least offer an
alternative.

Ok, you don't like mob rule, by which I assume you're referring to
'democratic' society, rather than a group of people with torch & pitchforks
advancing on your house, Frankenstein style.  The mob does things to suit
themselves, which isn't fair.

On the other hand, you want to have a ruling class (but no suggestion on
where they come from, but I presume it includes you), and then want to limit
their power to only 2% of decisions.  Good luck with that.  Right then, I
don't want to pay tax, but still want my garbage picked up, no noise from
anyone after 10PM, daylight saving in winter, and a pony.  The 'rulers' can
decide on the colour of the pony.  Sounds good to me.  And get off my damn
lawn.

Sure, there are plenty of things in my society I don't like.  And if I look
at it objectively (see above), I'm basically being selfish.  I can't offer a
real alternative, and coupled with being selfish, I don't have grounds to
complain.

You can drop out of society, plenty of people do.

You can't have a society of selfish individuals (despite R.A. Heinlein
occasionally thinking otherwise).  Beside, whose going to build the iPod
factory?

Tony

(Ok, RAH believed in the rugged, independent, resourceful person.  Who just
happened to be in amongst a bunch of ordinary dreary 9-5 sheep.  Which one
are you?  Silly question!)

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