Gus S Calabrese wrote:

> Are you saying democracy works ?    I say it is terribly flawed, full of
> lies and does not work.

I agree. I think it's a learning process (to learn to think and feel also
as a group, not only as individuals), and it may take a while. And when (or
if) we have learned that, as a species, there will be other, probably
better, options. 

But until then, you have so far failed to present any other option besides
enjoying the benefits of a rather stable democracy while not participating
in creating them. IMO that's one of the behaviors why it doesn't work. As I
said, it'll take some time...

> Of course it depends on your definition of democracy.   And which
> governments you include as democracies.  Was Germany 1940 a democracy in
> your opinion ?

1940 probably not anymore. 1932 probably still. But that's not the
question. The question is not whether it can fail, the question is whether
it can work if you do it right -- and how to do it right.

Just tell me you have never blown a transistor. Yet you still continue to
use transistors. You didn't say "oh well, that thing just blows" and never
used it again -- you learned how to use it properly. And you started to
realize that if used properly, it might just do something useful.


>>> I do not want their mob to rule nor do I want mine to rule. I am not
>>> wise enough to make choices for others.
>> 
>> It's not about choices, it's about (violent) power. /Somebody/ will use
>> it. Either you have enough on your own (the red button in your living
>> room?) or you have to get together with a few people to accumulate some
>> power, so that you can keep the others from using it against you. Those
>> few people is then a "mob" already...     

> <---- this paragraph is the belief system you base your life on ?

Nope. It's observation, not a belief system. Have you experience of living
in a country with a weak government, much weaker than the US government?
Whether I believe that it is too strong or not is not the point. But the
current experience shows what correlates with too weak a government. Look
around for countries with weak governments, and tell me whether you find a
place that you would like (in terms of government and public
administration). 

>> BTW, I don't think the weapon carrying laws have a big influence on
>> that. Hand gun violence is so last century :)  This is not about High
>> Noon type encounters. Violence has many forms, and carrying a gun
>> doesn't help much against most.  

> <---  Are you saying here that you have surrendered and are awaiting
> orders from your betters ? 

Did I say that? Read again... :)


>> Don't forget that you're talking from a place that's nicely secured all
>> around by  "the mob". Just look around a bit, and you see plenty
>> examples how a mob without democracy can look like. 
> 
> Hmmm I guess you refer to the middle east.  

Wrong guess. Plenty of places outside of the Middle East with weak
governments. I happen to live in one.

> I appears to me that the USA "surrounds" everyone else with their
> killer-good do-bees.  

I didn't understand this phrase. 

> ( Ever watch romper room ? ) 

And neither this one.

>> (From another message of yours)
>>> ^3^ Abolish voting for most things ( 98%)   Give representatives
>>> decision making power over the remaining 2%.
>> 
>> Representatives become representatives how? Through voting? Chosen by
>> the "wise five"? :)  
>
> Well yes you are right.... I will eliminate the 2%

Everybody doing his own, in peace... the nice version of anarchy. I'm
pretty sure that if it worked, democracy would also work -- because it
depends on people really wanting to live together in peace. Which happens
to be the base of a working democracy, too. The difficulties we have in
making democracy work reasonably well show that anarchy never would work.
Who would protect you from the real mob (the mafia type) taking over your
home, just because it's at a good location? Not your weapons, that's for
sure -- they have the better ones, and they are more. (Remember? You don't
want a group, you're alone.) 

Anarchy is the /real/ mob rule -- not one single mob, but only mobs. No
place for lone rangers. These, even though they pride themselves on their
loner status, only can be what they are because they are protected (more or
less, it could definitely be better) by the "democracy mob". The frontier
times are gone, mostly, and people are everywhere. You better get used to
it :)

Gerhard

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