Bob, About programming, Yes, .1" spacing fits the cheap Molex connectors too. Use an un-soldered header just pushed into pads that are tight. Those pins are square, so they push and stay in a 0.034-0.036" hole fine for programming. I use a smaller programming connector because my boards are usually tiny. If you make the pads on the PCB tight, no expensive pogos are needed. It is less than 0.5" x 0.2". Molex from Digikey I think? Fixturing up pogos and the $3-5 each for them is great for high production, but a lot harder for small production. About PicStart+, mine are '96 versions with the flash mod installed, I have never had a failure. I have not heard of them being unreliable. I have been using them for 10 years now, what failed on yours? Several hundred Pic of all sorts programmed. Maybe I don't use them enough? I have never tried hooking them to programming on a board. Always put the Pic into them, so I don't see how they could pop? Microchip may fix them for free, they replaced my ICD-2 for free? Other programmer seem always to have connection problem, or drivers needed. Over the years, that has been a major topic on the Pic Websites. I wasted about a $1K on Parallax programmer and emulator. Will never by their stuff again. Never any support. I bet the device list on the PicStart is the best too, since it is updated with each MPLAB? I have been Picing since the first ones came out and on this list for years, never seen any PicStart+ threads show up? Stange news to me! Mike Hagen Hagen Engineering Crestline, Ca. Mike@HagenEng.com (909) 338-5521 -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist