I use Pic Start+ with adaptors (SMD to Pins for Pstart+) bought from some vendors here in the US (Logical Systems, Iornwood, ect). They run about $65, so get an adaptor that will do the most pins and still fit a shorter package. You have to watch out, some small SMD Pics are narrow, some are wide SOIC! You might have to buy several adaptors, I ran into this going from the 12C508 to 12F675? The PicStart+ is the best supported programmer for the small guy! I got 2 of them, love the fact that they work in MPLAB! On another project with the 16F77, I put a place for a connector for the Microchip ICD-2 connection. I use a real small connector (5 pin), but do not solder it on. The PCB pads are laid out tight so I force the connector, program the Pic, and then remove the connector and use it for the next board. If I wanted to, I could even shorten the PCB by about an 1/8", by cutting the board off on that end? I use the Microchip adaptor board for the SOT 10F200. It is a universal board with ICD and DIP connections, and a good deal. BUT the DOTTED end on the 10F200 is almost impossible to SEE! I look under a magnifying lamp, and still have problems. Microchip needs to put a bigger dimple at the pin 1 end. I am going to stop using them (SOT 10F200) until they do something about it. It takes me too long to program and solder on the PCB because I CAN'T SEE which end is PIN 1 ! Mike Hagen Hagen Engineering Crestline, Ca. Mike@HagenEng.com (909) 338-5521 -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist