Herbert Graf wrote:

>> I've always thought that the second-person singular in English, German,
>> and French (thou, du, tu) were being phased out and replaced by the
>> plural (you, sie, vous), and that English is a bit ahead in the
>> schedule!  "Thou" is decidedly archaic, and I've been told by germans
>> that "du" rather sounds it too.  
> 
> I'm certainly no expert, but in the area of Austria my parents live in
> I'd say things are going the other direction, sie is falling a little in
> popularity, while du is more familiar, when in the company of people you
> know. 

Howard, I don't know which Germans told you that, but they possibly were
from the north. Some of them tend to think they are what matters in terms
of German language and completely forget that their particular culture may
not be shared by other parts of the German language area :)

"Du" is definitely very common in southern Germany, Austria and
Switzerland. I don't know about other regions. When I'm there, I only use
"Sie" for people I don't know at all, like addressing a cashier in a
market. OTOH if that cashier looks like someone less formal, I might just
use "du". 

We (I needed to get back on topic :) from the south tend to think that
people who /don't/ use it have some kind of socialization defect :)  It
definitely doesn't sound archaic.


>> The overall effect is that the second person plural in each language
>> *can* be used to address any number of people, including one, and I
>> suspect that before much longer all three of the singulars will
>> disappear except in old books, plays and films! 

If you want to apply this to German, it doesn't work. In German, you don't
use the 2nd person plural to address one person. (That used to be the
formal way to address higher-ups, I think, but that's definitely archaic
and I've never heard it in contemporary speech or read it in contemporary
writing.) Also, the 2nd person plural is just as informal as the 2nd person
singular -- almost same thing, just with the slightly softer touch that the
plural provides. (It's possible to address a group informally with "ihr"
(2nd person plural) that has some members that you would individually
address only formally). The formal way to address a group would be the 3rd
person plural ("Sie"); there's no way to distinguish the formal singular
from the formal plural. 

Gerhard

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