Dal: There are different levels of engineering. I think it may have been Gerhard that mentioned it. Some levels of engineering require ability in very advanced mathematics. These positions are typically not open to engineers who do not have the math that comes at the graduate or post grad level. I had the impression that we were considering those positions where fundamentals of circuit theory, digital and analog design techniques at typical engineering levels were required. There are numerous areas of design where intuitive understanding and creative thinking are sufficient. But if you are designing something like a 15 GHz multiplexing system on a PCB, that includes the oscillator and multipliers, a lot of math analysis is essential? There are some research engineering positions that require going beyond, Fourrier or LaPlace, L'Hospital, etc. But the great majority of engineering position, I think, are not in these areas. I see no real reason why those should not be open to anyone who can be creative enough to do the work. I think it can perhaps be somewhat problematic if or when an engineer has had to work hard to get his or her degree and competes with a non-degreed engineer that eventually becomes the lead engineer or the manager. I am not sure what to say about that except in my organization, I would not consider moving a non-degreed engineer in a supervisory position over a degreed engineer even if the non-degreed engineer was a better organizer and administrator. Keeping peace is important also. I once had two excellent engineers. They were both technically outstanding. But they couldn't stand one another. They would get downright nasty to one another and I had to reprimand them both regularly. But I did not want to loose either so I kept them on projects that did not connect and I would invite them to meetings alternately so they were never in the conference room together. This went on for years. I never could understand what it was that evoked such animosity. But I learned that ill feelings between employees could be very counter productive. So, I would not open up the kind of resentments that could be destructive by placing a non-degreed person over a degreed person. I am sure some will disagree. ----- Original Message ----- From: "dal wheeler" To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 4:20 AM Subject: Re: [OT] What Makes an Engineer Succesful > Yes, but at the end, he lamented not having completed his degree. > > Maybe I'm impatient, but why should an employer be concerned with > interviewing non-degreed people for a degreed position? There are > enough applicants these days to find good candidates among those that > have enough drive to (at the very least) complete the educational > requirement. I see a lot of posts that declare over and over the > virtues of finding that "great guy who taught himself without the need > for school". Thats all well and good, but it bugs me that there seems > to be an expectation that employers should automatically "grandfather > in" non-degreed people into engineers. "Engineer" suggests a level of > formal education, not just technical abilities. I know it's weird to > suggest, but those that want to be called an "Engineer" could actually > pursue a degree in it. I've done it while working and trying to have a > family life, so I know it can be done. Maybe I'm the only one, but it > bugs me when someone who didn't earn it calls themselves an engineer. > And, no, I don't have some kind of inflated ego because of a stupid > degree; it's just that I know how much work went into getting it. > > I think I might be channeling Olin tonight. > > >> Do You Need a Degree? >> http://www.ganssle.com/articles/Doyouneedadegree.htm >> >> An excerpt from that article.. >> >> "Book learning is very important, but in the end we're paid for what we >> can >> do." >> > > -- > http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive > View/change your membership options at > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist