Last night I saw an episode of "Born To Kill ?", featuring Fred and Rosemary West. A couple that have given me the creeps for a long time http://www.thehistorychannel.co.uk/site/tv_guide/full_details/Crime/programm e_3031.php Now, both Fred and Rosemary came from abusive backgrounds and Fred suffered head injuries in a couple of accidents. It was put forward that they could not have escaped their social and genetic "pre-destiny" to be abusive and monstrous themselves Given the gross and prolonged nature of their offending, which apparently gave them great delight, you would intuitively call them evil. But considering their backgrounds, how would you then define "evil" ? We know that behaviour has a physical and chemical basis. For example schizophrenia. If a pair such as the West's are not wholly responsible for their actions, can they be considered truly evil ? Not that I'm an apologist for the Wests. A pity they were not stopped at their first (quite serious) offence I would regard criminal pyscho/sociopaths differently from those who knowingly get wasted and drive or commit crimes -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist