I was told last year than a small Chinese company was making low-level PICs (like PIC16C54) for sales only inside China. I never saw samples, though. --Bob M. Adam Davis wrote: > On 4/27/06, William Chops Westfield wrote: > >> So you're explicitly soliciting pirated intellectual property? >> AFAIK, Microchip hasn't licensed their chips to any second sources, >> so any exact equivalents not from microchip are pretty much by >> definition "stolen." >> > > I'm interested to hear the details about this intellectual property. > What patents or copyrights are being violated if I do a clean room > reverse engineering of the PICMicro in question, then start producing > it as a second source? > > Until Intel started protecting themselves with patents (specifically > the memory access patterns in the pentium chip) other chip makers were > free to reverse engineer their chips and clone them. > > Of course this is different than simply analyzing the die and > producing an exact copy - that breaks microchip's copyright. A clean > room reverse engineering, though, could only break patents (many, if > not most, of which could be worked around). > > The market isn't that big for clones in this segment. If you want > cheap you get different 8-bit processor from China, or use a 4 bit > processor (no flash! It's expensive!). If you want something that is > second sourcable you use an 8051 or similar "old architecture" chip. > If you don't care about pricing or availability then there's no need > for a clone. > > Clone makers are getting in trouble for producing clones and then > marking and selling them as if they were from microchip. > > I imagine there are legal clones that exist, but they aren't well > documented. Typically you'd talk to your manufacturer and they'd make > suggestions about parts they've used previously. Or you talk to an > electronics broker based in asia. Perhaps a careful reading of the > lawsuits microchip files. > > But if you really want *cheap* cheap you don't use microchip, or you > use enough of them that the VP of sales takes you out for frequent > business lunches. > > -Adam > > -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist