Reminds me when I was doing development using the 16C54....boy tell ya, when the F84 came out, that was great!! Not that it was ICP, but the erase time. Always having to keep two or three in the eraser....eliminated that problem. Other than the fact the reset vector was at the end of the device...not at 0x00 So I even have one of the old Picstarts, bare board with the zif socket. Now of course, to program an windowed part, most prom programmers support all the old chips, not sure about the F series. --------------------------------- What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist