Russell McMahon paradise.net.nz> writes: > Interestingly, Smallpox vaccine is based on Vaccinia. *Nobody* knows > where Vaccinia came from. What started out as another virus was > replaced by Vaccinia unnoticed and it took years before the new > organism that was being used worldwide was "discovered". It turns out > to be a superior innoculation source. It could have also been doing > other far nastier things. The highly controlled smallpox vaccine > industry "converted" to a new totally unknown organism quite unbeknown > to anyone and it went unnoticed for years. How many 9's did that > bypass? > > In case you think Smallpox is gone, In March 2003 smallpox scabs were > found tucked inside an envelope in a book on Civil War medicine in > Santa Fe, New Mexico. The envelope was labeled as containing the scabs > and listed the names of the patients that were vaccinated with them. > Alive? I don't know. Theoreticaly could have been. Someone does know > but I'm sure they're not telling. How many 9's? > > Russell McMahon > Russel, I have to chime in in protection of vaccine industry. Maybe it is because I am part of it having spent last 15 years working on new vaccines. You are right, vaccinia is a "new" virus. Most probably it was derived from cowpox through a series of cell-culture passages. This is a typical method for making vaccine,- take a virulent virus strain, pass it couple hundred times in cells (or non-permissive animals) and you get an attenuated strain suitable for vaccine. It works for great number of viruses, but not all. This method was used earlier, I do not know of any modern vaccine made this way. Vaccinia does cause significant side effects and it is the primary reason why it cannot be used today for new vaccine development. The rate of accidental death or serious complications is about 1 in million. Is it bad? It depends. By modern standards it is unacceptable. But 50 - 100 years ago it was perfectly fine because everybody remembered outbreaks when up to 30% people have died! I believe one of the last big outbreaks in western world was in London, UK in early 20th century. Same story with polio vaccine, today oral polio vaccine is not used in western world, but 50 years ago when it was developed it was a miracle cure. Because everybody have seen people crippled by polio and the rate of infection was high. So, with vaccines it is a risk-benefit consideration: do we worry about potential side effects in 0.0001% vaccinees, or risk 20-30% population dead? For other diseases, the numbers are different and therefore safety level required for approval is different. Today vaccines, as wel as other drugs, undergo much more testing and safety studies than even 10-20 years ago. But sometimes we can only see side effects on very large populations, after the vaccine went to market. BTW, there is also post-marketing tracking of side effects. I am not advocating to let pharma companies free run with vaccines. They have to follow good manufacturing practices etc, but there will be side effects. People are different, they respond to infection differently. But it is not a reason to kill all vaccines. Cheers, Sergey Dryga PS. I was vaccinated with vaccinia, OPV etc. My children got polio, rubella, mumps, measles and other childhood vaccines too. -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist