>Has anyone ever had a product done that has used >( i think) leadless chips...the lil blobs of epoxy >over the part that gets mounted directly to the board.... You mean Chip On Board (COB) as used in greetings cards etc. Never used it, but guess that the failure rate could be potentially great as one would be buying the chips to fit to the boards with a bonding machine. Personally I would suspect that some of the tiny Bump Grid Array type devices would be the way to go if you can get them. -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist