Wouter van Ooijen wrote:

>> The problem comes from an inexperienced user writing code that might
>> make perfect sense on some other processor, but that is difficult to
>> implement on a PIC.  In these cases, some of these compilers will
>> silently generate truly horrid code.  Not inefficient, amazingly awful.
> 
> If so, who cares? If the generated code is correct, and its size and
> execution time are not off (with respect to what?) by a factor of more
> than let's say 100, what's the problem? 

I'd even go further: as long as the generated functionality (in terms of
program size and execution speed) does what it is expected to do, the
beauty of the generated code is a quite secondary issue. Maybe not for a
pro -- I do care somewhat whether my compiler produces awful code, because
it may indicate that it has other deficiencies --, but not for a beginner.


>> I write for and mostly talk to PIC hobbyists.  Many, many of these folks
>> (and way back at the beginning of this thread the OP sounded like a
>> hobbyist new to the PIC) have a very limited understanding of
>> microcontrollers in general, let alone the PIC.  For them, the PIC is
>> very alien territory, and very hard to grasp.  Putting a layer of
>> abstraction in there (the compiler) BEFORE they understand the
>> architecture make it a LOT harder. 
> 
> I disagree. I have seen kids who don't even understand binary numbers
> sucesfully write small Jal programs. For many people a HLL is the *only*
> way to do something on a PIC. They might be doing things in a terrible
> way, but they get something done. 

I don't have much experience with hobbyists and beginners (other than with
myself :). But I would tend to think that especially C is /not/ for the
normal hobbyist and beginner in micros. IMO C on a PIC is for someone who
already knows C; it is not easy to learn. (I guess in that I disagree again
with John :)  There are languages that are easier to get your arms around,
like maybe Basic or Jal. 

I guess it depends on what you want to do, as a beginning hobbyist without
prior knowledge of either programming or microcontrollers. For getting
quick results, neither C nor assembler are a good choice, IMO. Something
like a Basic Stamp looks much more inviting to me for that situation. You
probably can get something blinking in less than an hour, even without
knowing anything before. I know it's limited, but when you get to /that/
point, then you already know something and are not a bloody beginner
anymore, and everything looks a bit different. And maybe you just take the
next step to a compiled Basic and your own hardware...

Gerhard
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