I've gotten a bit further with the PIC programmer performance chart at http://www.embedinc.com/picprg/bench.htm. The same HEX files I used are now available. I know some of you already provided some programming times, but I'd like everything to be done using the same files just to be sure. Wouter, what is the correct URL for the Wisp628? Can you test with a real COM port instead of the USB converter, if that makes a difference in speed? Jim, I'd be happy to fill in numbers for any of your programmers that are either publicly available or were previously and have an installed base. Ken, is your programmer publicly available? If so, I'd be happy to put up information on it. ***************************************************************** Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts (978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist