This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --6c2NcOVqGQ03X4Wi Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Disposition: INLINE On Fri, 23 Sep 2005, Byron A Jeff wrote: > I think it's time for a subject change too... Thanks for that. > Actually I was thinking that since this is fact a solar engine, why not simply use > concentrated sunlight to preheat the water. How hard can it be to construct a steel > injection chamber that takes in cool water and has focused sunlight on it? Use a > fresnel lens to concentrate a portion of the light hitting the engine to preheat > the water under pressure. It lessens the thermal cycling of the engine and ensures > that sufficient water for a decent power stroke is injected. Water requires about 2.2 MJ/kg to boil. There is no way around that. If you think of the engine in terms of mass flow, it takes about 0.05 kg of fuel to boil a kg of water in an unspecified amount of time. It also takes a 1 meter mirror in full sun (1kW) about 37 minutes to boil the same amount of water (assuming no heat recovery). So 1 sq. meter of mirror used for an hour will equal ~0.03 kg of fuel (about 1 oz). You can take this as a base for cost calculations I think. I don't think that mirror life can be counted on to be longer than 2 years. With 200 days of sun/year and 8 hours of usable sun/day = 3200 mirror hours (not so bad). The fuel equivalent is 96 kg ( >> Sure, a sterling engine would be better, but that isn't the point... > > It's not better if it's inaccessible. Or if the efficiency of an accessible engine > is 10 times worse than your setup. > >> ...this is cheap, simple, safe, and accessible to the little guy. > > As a little guy in this I only have two questions: > > How much is it going to cost? > How much electricity can I get out of it? I don't think that a 10% efficient (with heat recovery and very high temperature steam) steam engine is practicable in garage build mode. > Any ballpark figures on these? > >> Where can I buy a sterling engine right now? How much does it cost? >> Sterlings are pipe dreams. > > Any Sterling with useful power requires extemely high pressure and difficult working > fluids. So it's inaccessible. > > ICE's and water are extremely accessible. I have water. I have a 3HP Briggs and > Stratton engine from a scrap edger that's been sitting in my basement for the last 3 > years. Is it possible to build a useful steam engine from it? It'd sure like to know. > > [Snipped the ICE/water discussion] > >> Another thing my dad made was a solar powered boiler for energy generation. >> The mirrors were each held by a scrap of sheet metal with the ends bent up >> at the tip and then bent at the center into a V. The mirror was held at the >> top of the V by the bent tips and the bottom was welded to a bit of narrow >> rebar which was then welded to a frame and bent to align the mirror. The >> frame was 12'x12' made from electrical conduit and strengthened by guy wires >> to posts along the central axis. > > A Curnutt solar furnace. I can't figure out why 25 years later why every backyard/ > rooftop doesn't have one. > >> This entire frame was suspended in the air in a cradle that allowed it to >> track the sun. It flexed like all heck, was very heavy and we never did put >> all the mirrors on it. > > I'm still thinking that this XenoTech Research idea of using flexible Mylar may > simplify many of those issues: > > http://xenotechresearch.com/solvari1.htm > > It's little more than an airtight drum with a mylar cover and a vacuum pump to form > a collector. Light, cheap (very cheap), and no mirrors involved. > >> Here is another idea: Put the mirrors on the ground. You can prop them up >> with rocks if you want. Align them at night with a laser pointer and a >> target in the center. Hang the pointer on a string from a tripod which is >> placed over each mirror like a plumb bob then move the mirror until the beam >> hits the target. Next day, you have a small copy of the sun tracking through >> the air over the mirror field. >> >> Then, put the engine and generator in the air on a post and move them to >> match the focal point of the mirrors. Since there is no high pressure feed >> to run to the motor and no hot exhaust to run out, the only thing that needs >> to follow them is a water hose going in, and an electrical cable going out. >> I would probably use two arms and a pole between them with the motor / >> generator mounted in the middle. > > My gut keeps telling me its better to put the engine on a base below the collector. > Find attached a rough sketch of the idea. > > Snippage... > > BAJ > --6c2NcOVqGQ03X4Wi Content-Type: IMAGE/GIF; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-Description: Content-Disposition: ATTACHMENT; FILENAME=steam.gif R0lGODdhCAJ2AoAAAAAAAP///ywAAAAACAJ2AgAC/oyPqcvtD6OctNqLs968+w+GYgeM5omm 6sq27gvHJkDXQY3L+s73/g8MCiu5iG2ITCqXzKZTRctEn9Sq9YrNrqYbrvYLDovHyxLIS06r 1+w20SyCu+f0uv0qH+Xv/L7/vxUIOEhYaCixd5J4yNjo6Lao+DhJWfkViYJpucnZGaMp6Sk6 Spq5A1qaqrqagGrKChsr6/oqa3vbSVuLy9vLqLvrKzxsBxxMjJxMZnys7PxcxRwKTV1dJiRt rb2tN5TNDR6O8T0jbn7e7Y2+zq5BXt4eLw/xnj5/j29QH5ffP78fAqC/gbcEniGIUJxBDwsT OhzVkEPEhxQtTXRXMaOz/otSNHpExvFCyI8k/YwkUjJlQWwqW8Y6OQGmy5lpZNKjiZMUmlM5 e3LaqcOmz6FOzAhlcJSoUmxwkrZaCnXQHqcHqEa96gLoDZ5Yu0Jy4NSq17FxQCUVSzatxJgw 0Kp9a0FrA5lu4do1Mo5F3bt8F8jFm2Jv38H6SCgSTJjv3zf8Ejvm0RDg4seUp5Xtgriy2skS OSM4ojm0oBZFkHoWjdodVRysM6cm6/q17BmCY8/uitj27ains+7+vRaJbuA+e/smjpxC7OHJ Zxp/wby5St3RpZN8Dt269s9Nqm+viL3td+vRvY9HGF78eeTVza/31/498PSf5O82795+PPr1 /vW/dp+ff+jwJ0OAAiqUhYEHckNggQtWZqCCD1bTYFATJiahhBcqU6GFGyoWhoYfDtMhVyNu NoaIJ+JSookreqXiVi/CGKOMM15Vo403QpVjjjtC1OOPPLLho5CbtPhDkUZWoqSSSz6CZJJP 5uSkjlOmFCUQVV5JyJZbcvlHllqCiWUxZH4kZhBfnlnHmlaymVCaasIJXh9u0lnTnW/imY+e e/L5j59+AqrFoH8Syo6hhiJKhZxJLMpoUVJFKo+jj1K6XyGQYurNpptyOqemoJpj6TWjhvNp YaduUyoTqa7a3yGvwprVrLPSqheUuD7TqqS7cjjJrb/qIeyhw9pS/qyqx/bSa6PL+pKsss+u xOS0LEYrrbWsYJuttqk0awW33t7007irgIuHud+KIq66rbTbrbsWQSSvJ+gmWG+5OuVrEbzc 8UuJv/8C7Mi9lxBc8LkI/yLwUwsb0rDDD0sVscQTm/TSxYBUbLHGxXA8sMdmziLyx8iW3Ca1 KLdhcE0rf8Xiy2u0rAbIo9qMlMx5MqvzMtD2LAbNRAINBs5gEV2o0XMhjS+JTOOh9NFPOwvS 1E8IPUfUdGottdWubuR1GVx3PaB6ZsfLa9ovlfbuZKBtAS5ob0ODdcoFaTX3XDah60XdfIxN LrJAsQ3W3kf1nU3Fftu90k4leNYs33KE/rd4dxTyjEYUXBSxeVOlaT7426x9Nvnnj+MtOtuI k576FKNXZfoNlcN9Oc+y/9u557Dro7vsj/tl1Omw934777z/rkDnxfu+e/PF26D88ssfAX2Y 2gAuY/SrS+t6739tP7zx4j+PSemZd096VemXPv75woeJPWC2U+/89Om3PT7wxDcfevB6Jz8V //GvNXlrXwCld4f4yc92t4ve7vKgPQHqDXQAzB/6EHi/DA7wfo5bhAMfqKfZjUwYngOf8SAo wQs+oDXvMuAGTQNAFFpQgvXL4NwomEBwKFBHqYthC6dHw+QNL3POi+AEWQfB+n1QdQZMIgaJ tMMFQmt/GOyg/vioVz4QEi+CQcRfAx0IPiwyj3yse2HWUAUSuQ1Rhkj03elYqL/cIa57oINj HEs4x+DJEY/mW6MfoYjG/URxUgjK1G9EiLFEPRE1g2RLogrIyHM0chyTTGAlpRi2XJUtk7Va xyXt80lMcvIw7QjleUwpyuksBZGi6gkqXeTJobzyE7MMHE5qmZ1/yNKVuFwhUXoJBXwAkzS3 HObSfkkTY5LNlS5hZcKUoswPRPOYyMTSNHO2yjIN5JrBvA5BuBmY64DTL7xBE3pwpBFnVmtI GRknNbNJEXWus5wPcec72Ykee94Tmg7R5z75+U1/YhMrAjVWPwpqmXvIMxcwgo9H/hAKD4VC lJxjcedEKVrRQHkTNpUqyUXt4cmPYjSjivToW6Ip0oFyVJIpHelKC6lNFCmkpS59KYOcY5da LlRhOb0pTu+Cyp3ytKfWoKkvgUohoy7zpNRQ6lKZuhGn/hOqyZDqU6lKIqtOFas/2yVhdijU k2HIaQD96hThOVZeaNWWZo0ZWh2jtbC6lTJRW2sq+2I0uapVM3klaGhsptesEXCwhvnrUAfk inrYNZylCCwkkMdWkURyXyU1qPowMll7TXNyiMBsZvVVWbQJsSOpaZdjHzvayDqytKCNZU1V qpzZYOu0MHutbY8qm2hxM4t3vSqEArZb3Aq3s7INVqXM/kLc1ea2YMHtbchU+9lWGtK5l01u cWWlS+X6NrW3+RRtURvb6nJ3u6LxVHZRIlrLqpevFDsvejWBisV6KJEdzQtyh3sfk4zzG5yB b3NCKFHVWHe887GkQruwXt4mZ00WRXCCt9pdOnxXwg5+8G3zW9vjVtjCHVswyxq8YQ4/18Mz 61NwRgzb9S53Z8I8MYpdKt9QpeigmEmxSmMs46LZkz8KFi6OxxQiGoeYwAP9MZCTJmTPQhh3 71GQP98R384aOcfhOiiUB7y0KR85GvpUrHb/Jx8AOdTF0CXyd7wz4REq2YtbiW/5zkIdJBlk dvEZ8wRfV0Pc5QC5by6Qbboo/oUW0bkoT3ZzGY11PstCtrERSXOZt9xiRMgQvpM+KmeHhl4Y EstBxFSCowMCyVgZAYVmqTQ1qZgiYHyv0Yeji6fZhedcxoSNx6Oj3H6H5zfqkY4nvKEdw4fF Pn5ReLcOdv9sHUDT+TqP7AOeG9uWu14jW5NM2RbhaBOXEnLwg8M+ngulF2xvAxHMY4w28/SY PW0v0ojkNje7x60/cbub1+XeG0uudW0yzzrWPKQiDnu97R9uj9s23J8KZ4g/1JnR2QisnhkJ PsNlX7HZkdPSIPktWUrmz42xW99g+1bDg6tQLmCkOK2r+L7CAXrhtaYHxBuetwsO3N4+MOWv qVs4/nFvXINffArINy5ydC8S3uAOogkBrumDVxDlJE+hB0l9QDKyvJunACbGL7xC6L0c5g0H d8hpmMecf3viP9Q50pcu9aS77+lFZDsS2Rj0nTN2vo/Mt4rLPkavA/2NWmR53NNbcCUaXdiX VTjZwXzDvKe77ZpWX+IPD3lqt0WgudZ4wZ3ewj3TW+l/v3rgEc71Q6dd4Eov+63lLcDTx3vi WwT7yhPa6Xp6/s54rDUfbc/xtx863PX2vOY3X8dp/zF80O79HXGv+5Zr/dhrFzbvFT930oDz 5gM7zUSaQt5R556ENaI5qQjY4eoueskO9u+QFfjpu+ubV+CH7tGxvpb7/ga62Wd1GRQmSdi8 MFy88O8MzrNud3dTM1THLNQ3ZG2Gd+F3GY9WdwNISrPQfs0wfntSKoklINenCvl3NqoSdfyX CRboH5FhWhFYc6OVCJcWCCCoHwtRLBr4ag5zgkbhGyoISmfgXQboK+JHTr0ig//3X9KkXziI BU70J95Hg2FGAlXigpjGPTZmGUeIhGumY0J4RuLlQccBeB7YZIGWNFRIX0RoZo2hhf1HHvp3 NV6IXdkSCSMxFVi2hYzxKCRIL2+yhgQ4hmE4HqpmcWg4h21IfgcIhW+ofbTEh7DQgy+WhVKY iOpHYvhFG4WIOReGgU6Ih3mYdY8YgEVFgY64/n53qIDr0WOqAYnXc4XZl3GU+Imn9IcxNHsa hXUsyImVeGb7R3uhdk6ouIhumIqICIodtoQxJYuS8X9a9oIcl4ktQXIMGF6xuIuWKHfQVIfK OIy6KIiwEY3MSI2ymItlmBYT6InfKI3guI3cmFHXiI3nyIvpqIokZY6miIvayIg/yI6rKA3G EIg12FCiRQv2eIroOIv5eCj7mGkD6Y7/iE53KJDLSJCraJD0pI8K6Y9kSIym4pAP+WXv6I4T SZFvFZAQiZEZuSEaaSXtqIzkcI8rWJEWeZHqGI4ieSn4hJALyZIt+SHEeIIMOYb7cJIoWVaI yI9kSJMh2ZM+GRdA/hmUF6JlpWiU/CcQO8mTzESJzICCDJGNT0klWyWVM7mS8NiLxYGVpwiL PriOV/mVRRmPRymUZBmVktVoVWmVzRSLWdmWYqmKi2V+S/mMhRWOYWZX8seVWtmPBdlkfVlm 9ngRThmCaxVlH8lzAeGWIQiXhYkSh/mYb7lRcRlelEmXXQmMvpWQZ1mZLtkdVnWSn6mZe8mX nemZ1nWaEYmETvWZ2giGYuiaW6hUukCSBNaagmmbl3lXfjkatdmVNKWHuCgUiAmZoOlaWxmK ksebw/lQMqmSsiacY5lSP3lbZ1GZ+KicpGKWthUW2xmF3RlI0rmJdPecY0mePmWefoie/jhZ jRdVj/tkFcj5lhM1n7AlFvbJnePonWbIXWjBn+Mpjsv5nanlFgNajf6pQ4rIgZAGn5xZoJLk oNkDoYxJoBMKU4HJHXuhoBKqoQ1aoZXzoeoJmOwJoM24gRFqoiF6PZ24no65mS3qorXjoIM2 o86Il02llx2qDjnakCqKoqTFZPeGmgsqpJrYow9qpNWpozsKNkuKfU2ank8KpVVFlVb4o0cK oldKVno5myUIpNsBnBtaYWHaAyVqpRiKpUBIh1vqpEHKplUDhDdJpSy6pnNKQqCmp9FXpXLa pwzEEEp5oV6qHbH5ojJqqCD1p2S6lWojTbkJGeKJpI1KMnWK/qfNsKjSgZtDGn+ZCnuB6qge CamFJamwBKqHap50mqUdeaeiqqqr+qUudqrvCavk+Kh76qbTKSVjGquyKqghVqucxqU06qtz uKSuSmWpiqukqqvrN6yiZqnN6qzBSqRE+aqbKo8c2lWdGK0requcWqEqM6LMSpvTKq7jmjEw qqyF+peVWq2XeoAxma3v2qUHOlfq+q3Uia7beq35mqLZCaf92ojqui7z+om5Qan3yq3bwq70 uqzh6q8Gi6z/WpYRq60Fi7CNtbEJO7DmOrEdyy4UC7HumqQZKrIMRbK8KqbFmqcrO08Ne7Em e6IMy4WHha+/+bESq7H+h7PxOrO9/uqygIoRHJM4AVujfgqyPVt+ByuzmFmvJwuvRNowR4u0 DKq0PMseilq1V0uNCnus6bqrMco4QCuZUVuzxvqv8JKfFpu0mmqvapuibPu0X7uzGbu1ByG1 9GW2Oou2bzuqYwu4FAasdvu3WEu0bku29le4fouxcfuyiqtbOau4i9uqcRq4l7u3hNu3zHm3 kJu4Xmu5RdO4nnu4o3tIiqq1pNu5pvu4mxu5oou4jLuwZ/u6aRu7dTu7M5arXgu2Q5u5yYq3 Q9i67fm5sBu6uru7rFu7jkuzg0utKbu8TdO8ziu0mHuuInGbqgu8hdK75Xq6lPaLmAFl26u3 30u72Gu7/s+bhY6zgN3IvWFLNfIbtC17jpaSfnCbvg87vF9Dv/Wbpm6Jv/6Sv6ublWpGsKsZ vi5nMfymOg8cb89Xb+fGd8jXbWUkwchnbNK2a14Sv9UbDf+rwLcLjjNHfO/2cvN2wprjbU6H bjG4wm3neqj3evsrvf27wMGJvKEKf4TlPv02doZHdKNXdAnXZ9/2wyY8dUyouaVLvN1brb97 v+zTQW6Twq0XcBpkRavGeChXxF9cwMNrkiwjwlBLwu0Lw8WndnkWxCaHd1t8xPAGx1kceRkm vE48v0truGesaDEIdY13xV1cx3OUeXHMRYVMx0RMxucLszmYwNZrv9nXPz73/nMlB8gGN3ii x4GG7D1EBMZuXLZ3TLneq76jjLrSW2qm0cmpJ3TrhsV+R2pLLMjmRj5Cp8TTKxwfLLt5vLp7 zL4GdXUOrGx8d22/Z8vB18HJt33Fxzl7xMzHrG22SMqCe8MbicOQHMBlnLqMLMq8DLoIK8WP XGDc3M2WI86u+8ui6b/UXM7WvMMwGs56TBxzFlEhLM+mHM+9vM3s3MTmrM9RfLy4m7ym3M6v u5/3zL+4zLSNTND1KqAIjcovQs9Z+7kJCtEkq87uXM2VW6h1sa9YWMohu9E3+5LfrMunjNES fdKM2tGPm8/XHGHkTNGTatLZC702DdPXxc/6K60K/r3TL13TYtvPdkjT78zSN73SAh28CX3U PY3S4MvHGV2MQ63DxIrUOP3Uu+zT85zUgbEaQV3PRo3VYi3SDD3WSrscF83RSv2rVA3Sb/1n aq3VWf0fXe2cOkwdcq28dM1aMu1nID0cHx17Ib3Qaw2ujBrYet3QV523O22rtMkcgn3X/xzT jh0UrVkeit24Ul3Sbl3UYlhnOT3XnJ3Lfn29YxvaYG3aZF3Yc33ZXGvPor3XpB3Qix3JTRvb qm3ZjM3Vq60mXsbXJw3UrN3Ynn26UiNmlG3YWz3Ou11t+pcfkl3Vyr1izl3bORMg0k3U1F3X vu1pehghmt25tH3cIJzN/lI2zbpt3My9z+stNnjhZOKNvuTNx+i7zuRGvepd0MFdXnZNaPid 38Tt3vT9y/btyI2ZLtxt2/xtWN4dLu55MAq+2Srt4FBTYhI+3hRu3UPYffIdmhru3kgWNB4+ jSsy0RKmIdo90wLe3CEeZBEu2wtO4KfN1KmW3izO1DN+2yMdItFN4mhZk/49M/jx4/6o4+ft 4kPuzby930f+2fstWAfO1k2t3+0N5Sge1xg+3yB+5SZT2jE+4SYu5HYC1MM95ULd5WTu0tfN 4OxV4V1i0Vr+4WL+5tKFqkye41xe4/8J5hlO5xvO51Ue0X+e5OUp6ClN6Gkuon2+5Ym+52Z6 /ub+7eR3btaeiueDfiInnmSHvtxt/lt1DumXjuiZPuahzt6YPiKabmJyXuKkDuqGjuOoHuSv vuicPtp6zuOWfuqjnuqlDuuRXuGT/tidTqGsDuRpCeim7unHjpS+Xuuxzuuznuy/LuqdLuxW rei6vuxGjuuVzipFDpKOnuvfbuzcLu7enqiMPueuPu3PDuzWfe1Oje5Kqu6t3uu0ru1mXu3V Xejuvu+z3e3EHujQbu0B79oD/+4DbvB7Xez1zuwTour9AgATT/EVb/EXj/EZr/Ebz/Ed7/EZ v+733u7W0wj2Ge+HLfBd8kwP/yARH7MQE/LS3u8k/wsxj+wzz7cw/m/vMp/tOW/n4c7uOG8n K2/uQd/zQ1/yNt/s+O7zKr/zN3/0f0P0QC/yQi/1Sf/0Sz/yTY/xCEyPC7/gOq/FDKb0EO/s NP91/47tX3/uKU9ImozgI571Zs/0SN9G0JbMw0fxxkfp8Hjy/Prob6/MSDzxbRzDwy6kf//W gb8xd2ZDdFz4ho/4M6n4gx31OaRyA3TxPiT5a/+RlT/Z8475ma/ID/fKni+RYI/Hgt8tke/6 bkd0kT900536bX/wTj9ir69EnS/7si/vfq/6xYv7xBf7AMDKOmf8gvz7iR/8Bj78tpf8u2f8 0f9s01/91g99i//5zW/eo5+GLL8gLh8w/lPP9kbP+Ggv9kVf9Zfv9c9f/ut//k3P+u/P8/Fv 99+v/vU/7vfv1Rpd++ZPAPEx1WD9YZSTVtgS0Jvbpb1QRDCpjM5RXdnWfeFYTltavvHJBrPc D20fSvBXNB6RyRVxxFQ+gR8n9DhlDKlZ7ZZbm3XBJmlYaQ2YzWT1mu1KY9vrXaoE6pA4dt65 cWf4jdDg4ggLDT3edA7B5vAONv4w9iYpJXku94oEFRc7PTsTxT6z5vLqTjAfUU8dz1oDB1FG Z2nJQmVry8ZIVFspXzP1TJE2RXOPkau+kmEVMjNWI/+Ao5+TinGZtbfdlrlxGh2CV59/e62J Yy++2dsrbtfd/mPCe8YfH8yn+XiVOY3lAQaEhy/gC3rnovGBBK1Xw4XowKkjWJBiu4HiKrKg YerOQ0x5VJ2yJBJiRH/ZMqZEdlGIShEsGYIEJRGjS5u0YPa4aSHnPZ2LsMXbOfRQT59E/2m0 N/OkUKRP5XiDWtOgTE9BJ07V2sXola0tn2Kl+pXsk66uyvILSxNsWreapKY9e0xs27d3b5yd a3FqXWd4AeeNW3ZvLb8/AyfWOJhsYZxs/yqmyJFyZcuXMWfWvJlzZ8+fQYcWPZp0adOnUadW vdr0S8mvYcfuh0h2bdu3VdxyjJt377VRfAcXblv3cOPHExdHvpz5V+XNoUe/+Vx6/nXrAKlf 1749WXbu38EzpR2efHlC3s2nV08F/Xr37320hz+f/mLg9fHnb+Iaf8kwRPxjTIcA9TNpPMko C2S3GgBcUBrgCCxwHv5eG8fBQiJUEIgLJYzsQATpOEytHLrKUBMrEupQl/tAZMgEFHczcUBG plhKxWsobPGVSD6qpMc+fgFEISFBEobHEM0pMhUih4lpIX2OPLLJKKeBxMqPbrQLsrsqocYS aqB80qMvoXRRIbSSZGUfrx4cM8wg3HzToRTXPPNMNe2UcT75uLSqzDtTTKWhOtfMx8xy1ExI D2fI1MfQHT0aVFA58QCSUUk5bI7Ptyb9cx+IIsXUFzwP/m3QUinQ6XRSUEP0NM9ANzoVTFdV 3NQtLAdFyEVVScWV1VwdlRWaJ+cctVEzgx21zEc/jVXULEd8J7YuH9T1WRttHBIfUutcdAxr eK20wV3xDLfaKp2lFFo2eZqWnHPRhHXZXuuY8c8gg0lWWUntPSofc+30CdxyM2XOVrlardbc UNUtVMhSyR1JX0IXfrjSZx0+1sJiIaa1w4Mb86MjJkcCUmIxfZ2S0Sk7GNPHVyWG2eIhLSwZ ZppD8pEkbQOGFmT9hNFTi6APWveTn/PbSLyjdjT6qhyNJlZo9rIF1mmgoI7az6K2bvrqorL+ 2h1ixTYE6bLRXu7stNkWbu22IuHG7e246Z427Lrx9k031vju2++/AQ9c8MEJL9zww1WuoAAA Ow== --6c2NcOVqGQ03X4Wi Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist --6c2NcOVqGQ03X4Wi--