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I think it's time for a subject change too...

On Thu, Sep 22, 2005 at 05:29:31PM -0700, James Newtons Massmind wrote:
> > But the difference is that the heating block/head  would not 
> > require cooling - it would remain substantially at the same 
> > temperature and just be used to flash the water spray to 
> > steam. The hot steam would then be ejsvted in the exhust 
> > cycle ready for the next injection. I like the idea but think 
> > that the running speed would be limited.
> 
> I'm glad someone gets it. I'm amazed at the number of replies that show a
> complete misunderstanding of the idea. 

New ideas sometimes take time to get.

> No, it doesn't require cooling. 

Cooling is the worst thing in the world for a heat engine yes?

> No, it doesn't require high pressure injection: No compression and the
> injected water is NOT boiling. 

But here's where all the questions arise:

Without high pressure can you inject sufficient water to generate a useful power stroke?
Won't injecting cold water impact the efficiency of the engine due to thermal cycling?

> Yes, you probably have to increase the surface area inside the cylinder head
> to ensure a rapid transfer of heat. 

Se we should be looking at larger displacement engines then?

> Yes, it will turn over slowly, who cares? 

I do. If it's possible to double or triple the efficiency by better equalizing
the temp and pressure of the intake water, then it's worth the effort to examine.

> No, preheating the injected water isn't a big deal, just bodge up a heat
> exchanger from copper tubing with the exhaust steam and the intake water. 

Actually I was thinking that since this is fact a solar engine, why not simply use
concentrated sunlight to preheat the water. How hard can it be to construct a steel
injection chamber that takes in cool water and has focused sunlight on it? Use a
fresnel lens to concentrate a portion of the light hitting the engine to preheat
the water under pressure. It lessens the thermal cycling of the engine and ensures
that sufficient water for a decent power stroke is injected.

> No, it isn't supposed to be efficient, the sun is free: trash 99% of it but
> get that 1% at very low cost without high pressure danger. 

The problem I see is that though it's free there's only a limited amount available
every day to utilize. So if there are ways that are still simple and low cost, and
yet wastes 95% of the sunlight instead of 99%, that's a vast efficiency improvement.

> Sure, a sterling engine would be better, but that isn't the point... 

It's not better if it's inaccessible. Or if the efficiency of an accessible engine
is 10 times worse than your setup. 

> ...this is cheap, simple, safe, and accessible to the little guy.

As a little guy in this I only have two questions:

How much is it going to cost?
How much electricity can I get out of it?

Any ballpark figures on these?

> Where can I buy a sterling engine right now? How much does it cost?
> Sterlings are pipe dreams.

Any Sterling with useful power requires extemely high pressure and difficult working 
fluids. So it's inaccessible.

ICE's and water are extremely accessible. I have water. I have a 3HP Briggs and
Stratton engine from a scrap edger that's been sitting in my basement for the last 3
years. Is it possible to build a useful steam engine from it? It'd sure like to know.

[Snipped the ICE/water discussion]

> Another thing my dad made was a solar powered boiler for energy generation.
> The mirrors were each held by a scrap of sheet metal with the ends bent up
> at the tip and then bent at the center into a V. The mirror was held at the
> top of the V by the bent tips and the bottom was welded to a bit of narrow
> rebar which was then welded to a frame and bent to align the mirror. The
> frame was 12'x12' made from electrical conduit and strengthened by guy wires
> to posts along the central axis. 

A Curnutt solar furnace. I can't figure out why 25 years later why every backyard/
rooftop doesn't have one.

> This entire frame was suspended in the air in a cradle that allowed it to
> track the sun. It flexed like all heck, was very heavy and we never did put
> all the mirrors on it.

I'm still thinking that this XenoTech Research idea of using flexible Mylar may 
simplify many of those issues:

http://xenotechresearch.com/solvari1.htm

It's little more than an airtight drum with a mylar cover and a vacuum pump to form
a collector. Light, cheap (very cheap), and no mirrors involved.

> Here is another idea: Put the mirrors on the ground. You can prop them up
> with rocks if you want. Align them at night with a laser pointer and a
> target in the center. Hang the pointer on a string from a tripod which is
> placed over each mirror like a plumb bob then move the mirror until the beam
> hits the target. Next day, you have a small copy of the sun tracking through
> the air over the mirror field.
> 
> Then, put the engine and generator in the air on a post and move them to
> match the focal point of the mirrors. Since there is no high pressure feed
> to run to the motor and no hot exhaust to run out, the only thing that needs
> to follow them is a water hose going in, and an electrical cable going out.
> I would probably use two arms and a pole between them with the motor /
> generator mounted in the middle. 

My gut keeps telling me its better to put the engine on a base below the collector.
Find attached a rough sketch of the idea.

Snippage...

BAJ

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