Well.... I haven't read all the messages on this thread (yet) but I am surprised I haven't yet seen mention of the _real_ safety problem with the shuttle: the 'we gotta fly or else' mindset of NASA. Unless this mindset changes (can it?) the new program will still be faced with the biggest safety issue from the shuttle age. Bob Ammerman RAm Systems -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist