Well my point wasn't to argue the merits or demerits of Linux but the flood gates are open (probably my fault) and I cant help but to make at least a brief comment. I really do think modern Linux distro's are easier to use than windows and involve less tinkering. I realize people are scared to type but with a single command you can download and install a program, without worrying about finding it or any of its dependencies on the web the package manager takes care of all of it for you. On the same note you can update your system with a single command; not just the OS components but the whole system; including the kernel. Debian and FreeBSD have done this for a long time with apt-get and the ports collection but more recently Fedora Core has perfected it imo. The installers require no more interaction or knowledge than the Windows installer and you also get a good number of your base programs and tools installed with the OS. I really don't hate windows, I am typing this from XP 64bit right now but I do find my self spending substantially more time post install in windows going to individual websites and downloading and installing all the programs I use than I do on Linux witch 90% of my stuff is already there. This is not to say I have never had problems with Linux, lord knows I have had my fair share but I find that in solving my Linux problems I am learning alot more than in solving my windows problems. Linux still has some way to go in standardizing its GUI and working out some stability problems with its windowing system witch hopefully xorg will do; although they have alot of baggage to work with, I think the best solution would be to start from scratch in that aspect. I really don't think keeping up with technology is a problem once you are caught up with it. I think the biggest problem is learning it in the first place. When you finally have a good overall feel for it (witch takes a long time as you need to learn so much in parallel) its just a mater of reading the trade journals to see whats new and whats going away. Maybe its just me but I really don't separate the two fields that much if your into electronics money bets at some point you will want to interface them to a PC at some level. As far as the programmer example I would say the problem is using serial or parallel ports in the first place. I would really like to see more USB (yes I know there is the issue of obtaining a Vendor ID witch really sucks) or firewire projects. Like it or not both techs are on there way out with Macs abandoning them awhile ago and fewer and fewer on PC mother boards. I can feel some sympathy in the hobbyist area, especially for cost issues, but it really annoys me that my new PICStart Plus programmer that I just paid $200 for still uses a serial interface. Complexity is a whole other issue I really don't see the point in using old technologies because they are simpler and you can easily learn them. What is the point of learning and obsolete technology be it hardware or software. You may score some geek point (witch I have nothing against) and it may be interesting to see where the current tech came from and how it has changed but if you are developing in such an environment you will be isolating your self and your project from the rest of the world. Perhaps it is just for your personal enjoyment and you never intend on having anyone else ever use your project. Then for the sake of simplicity you are still preventing yourself from progressing in your field of study be it electronics, programming, astronomy or anything else you will never get any better. I guess its just my personality though and I cant expect everyone to be like me. The harder a task the more I want to do it. Seeing that "Technical Calculus 4" or "Advanced Theoretical Astrophysics" on a syllabus gets me excited. I really think its just a mater of a can do attitude if you go into it thinking it will be easy it probably will be if you go into it thinking you cant do it you probably will fail regardless of your intelligence or experience. Justin This turned out to be a longer rant than anticipated and heavily opinionated sorry if I offended anyone ;) -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist