Thanks for the input. At the moment I am just learning the PIC and want to do a bunch of experimentation, probably move the chip between circuits a lot, so BillW's solution probably would be more ideal. At least until I have a more complex project I want to keep around a while at which point I will be sure to build in icsp headers and build a cable. I had found this site http://smt-adapter.com/ witch has a larger variety but http://www.sparkfun.com has them cheaper. Justin -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist