In terms of ICD2 clone, I have made one using the simplest form and I am qualified to say the cost will be below US$25. $20 profit will make it to of US$45. This Chinese shop is selling assembled serial ICD2 at RMB260 (US$33) including a serial cable, a 6-pin debug cable and a 9V supply. They used to sell the unsssembled parts at less than US$25. The shipment within China is about US$5. http://www.nbglin.com/cpjs/dpj12.htm (Never mind the Chinese, just look at the number and picture.) It seems to me that I can make a fortune by selling this thingy and I will be another Wouter. :) I need to look at this seriously. :) The fully assembled USB version is about US$75 in this shop in single piece quantity. Regards, Xiaofan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Byron A Jeff" Newsgroups: gmane.comp.hardware.microcontrollers.pic Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2005 12:33 PM Subject: Re: [PIC] dsPIC for hobbyists ... What about complexity then? Have you actually gone and taken a look at an ICD2 clone? You can find one here: http://www.nebadje.org/ICD2Clone.html It has a 16F877A, a MAX232, and a Cypress USB interface chips among 16 ICs and a ton of resistors, caps, and crystals. Now a novice is supposed to somehow put this bad boy together?! And oh by the way they have to develop another programmer to get the bootloader into the 16F877A. I'll have a seat and wait for that to happen. > The hobbyists can make use of the excellent Microchip sampling > program to get DIP package of PIC16F876/877/876A/877A to get > this done with less than US$15 or less IMHO on a breadboard, > not including the power supply and serial cable. Then again > there will be problems but you can fixed it by adding US$5 > supply or to draw from USB port (USB connectors and cables > cost money as well). Substituting complexity and high cost for simplicity and low cost is a recipie for disaster. -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist