> When a programmer > becomes a BCD, the overriding factors become cost and ease of > construction. Add: ease of getting it working. I think a lot of time>>>money beginners do start with such a simple programmer, some of it get it to work, but I am afraid some never get it to work and drop the whole PIC idea. I have no idea of the relative size of the two groups. So yes, almost-zero-cost programmers are important for beginners (some might never start with PICs if it were not for these type of programmers), but I am afraise there are also beginners who maybe could have afforded a low-end intelligent programmer, but instead try an almost-ene-cost one, can't get it to work, and drop PICs altogether. > That means for ICSP > development that half your pins are being used as the interface > for programming durin development. in most cases that is not needed, a little thinking can find a use for the ICSP pins. Or use a 14-pin chip as developer for an 8-pin chip. Or the uChip 'extra-pins' version of the chip. > Anyway I wrap up with my tagline: > "PIC Programmers are overrated." For a specific audience that might be true. But the question is of course how big and/or relevant that audience is. Wouter van Ooijen -- ------------------------------------------- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl consultancy, development, PICmicro products docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: www.voti.nl/hvu -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist