One more suggestion: if printed datasheet books kan not be handed out maybe they can be sold at BuyMicrochip? anecdote: A few years ago I attended an 18F introduction. They handed out datasheet books and IIRC some samples. While listening with half an ear to the presentation I read the instruction set and memory architecture, and before the meeting was over I had decided to add 18F to Jal. I think I had it working within a few days (very rough, mainly translating 14-bit instruction patterns directly to 18F). Later I attended a 30F introduction. No printed datasheets, no samples. I don't say its the only reason, but Jal still has no 30F support. Yes, of course I can print the datasheet. The result weights a few kilos and fills an ordner. OK on my desk, but not something I will read in bath or in bed. If a printed 30F datasheet was easily available for $50 I would have bought one. Maybe even for $100. another anecdote (before I jump in the bath, with an annotated copy of start-with-pics): Of course I use the 'give small to catch big' tactic too. See this LCD http://www.voti.nl/shop/p/LCD-09.html? A surplus store sells them for much less (if they still have stock)(don't tell anyone!), but with no data at all. I got it working, gave 10 or 20 to a guy who figured it out too (independently) on the condition that he made a webpage. Now I link to his page and I sell lots of these LCDs. Similar for http://www.voti.nl/shop/p/M-SW-ROT.html, I gave a few to a German site about MIDI or something like that, now I sell lots of these rotaries (but not much else :( ) to Germany. Needless to say: if I have a new product that I think one of these guys might do something usefull with I just send them a few. Wouter van Ooijen -- ------------------------------------------- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl consultancy, development, PICmicro products docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: www.voti.nl/hvu -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist