> BTW I don't understand how you can have 72 osc cycles before > Vdd is applied. The spec talks about the time between /MCLR logical high (so the chip is released from reset) and /MCLR being at Vpp level (so the chip enters programming mode). When too much time elapses between these two points the chip start running. Apparently the programming hardware uses the program counter, assumes it to be 0 on programming-mode-entry, without resetting it. This can of course only be an issue with the Vdd-before-Vpp sequence (without the dongle), with Vpp-before-Vdd /MCLR is already at Vpp when the chip is powered. The F88 progspec is a bit peculiar, it indeed does not mention the Vpp-first sequence, yet the /MCLR pin of the chip can be configured as input, and it can be configured for internal oscillator. Maybe a documentation error, or maybe this chip never needs the Vpp-first sequence. Wouter van Ooijen -- ------------------------------------------- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl consultancy, development, PICmicro products docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: www.voti.nl/hvu -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist