On Mon, 15 Aug 2005, Sean Schouten wrote:

>> With this in mind, I move that we need to consider carefully whenever we
>> introduce new tools to students."

M$ has considered that for most schools already.

> I find it a strange thing that people actually still use the 16F84.
> Isn't it almost pre-historic? My book ("PIC in Practice", by D.W.

I have older chips than that in the CPU box ;-) Like 16C54XT-04 with 
datecode 93xx or so. And that is recent. Occasionally I use one. I still 
have the breadboarded programmer I built from scratch for them in ~1994. 
And the driver works (the wonders on open source *nix).

Peter
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