On 7/12/05, Nate Duehr wrote: > So semi-recently, at least in automotive buying terms, my wife's Honda > Civic that was seven years old -- was totaled in an accident, so trying > to be both sensible and practical about our oil consumption we decided > the best we could do at the current time was either a Hybrid or a > Diesel. We settled on a VW Jetta TDI. Earlier this year I bought a used 2002 Golf TDI with a manual transmission. Overall, I am another very happy TDI owner. There are a few maintenance items I've had to deal with, like cleaning the intake manifold, which was a dirty, nasty 8-hour job. > Added into that, to me, it seems that bio-diesel, even with it's quirks, > is a really viable way to lower our needs for foreign oil and also to > put farmers in the Midwest to work here in the U.S. Most blends are > still 80/20, with the 20% being bio-grown, and 80% still being distilled > from crude pumped out of the ground, but it's a start. I buy premium biodiesel (B2, 2% soy) from the local farm bureau. The other 98% of our farm bureau fuel is refined from oil that comes from wells in southern Indiana and Illinois, meaning no foreign oil . As someone pointed out on the TDIclub.com forum, "no war required." > - Anyone can go out and buy a diesel. Today. Absolutely. And we get better fuel economy than does a Prius, without the long-term battery or electric motor replacement expenses. And are more fun to drive. I don't know why I frequently do this, but at stop lights I turn down the stereo to listen to the engine. For some strange reason its music to my ears. > > - Modern diesels with computer control aren't anything even CLOSE to the > black-smoke belching 1st and 2nd generation passenger car diesels of > even a decade ago. I've only seen just a small puff of soot in the mirror in mine, rarely. Nothing like I've seen with older diesel passenger cars. > - TurboDiesel engines like the ones VW are using produce plenty of > torque, and minimally less overally horsepower than equal sized gasoline > engines. And the vast majority of in-town drivers don't need blazing > horsepower numbers anyway, but torque helps you get from stop light to > stop light with that "race car push in the butt" feeling if that's what > you're going for. My Golf, with only 90 hp, accelerates like a 150 hp gasoline engine. Like the saying goes, people buy horsepower, but drive torque. I can pass cars on the highway with ease. The TDI is really a great engine. > In general, we've been really happy with the car so far. VW really does > a nice job on the overall package making the car feel "peppy" while > still producing a consistent 30-35 MPG in town depending on driving > conditions and driver's lead foot, and we've seen numbers as high as 48 > MPG highway in it. The low-end torque and fact that the engine produces > maximum horsepower around 2200 RPM makes it quiet and smooth (it took a > while for me to get used to the automatic transmission shifting it at > low RPM numbers around 3000-3500). Mine is a 5-speed, I have never gotten below 45mpg, in mixed city/highway driving. Last fillup I got 47.3 mpg. I religiously keep track of fuel economy. My wife and our two boys went on vacation last week, I got that mileage driving on the highway most of the time at 80mph running A/C on 90 degree days. > The only gasoline equivalents that could do those kinds of MPG numbers > right now are Gas-Electric Hybrids or tiny little econo-boxes that crush > like beer cans if you sit on the fender. I almost chuckle every time I pass a Prius. > All of this by computer engine control -- there's no direct link from > the driver's foot to the engine compartment, it's just a digital sensor > and a wire... the computer does the rest. > > When the car is cold, it feels a bit sluggish off the starting line, as > the computer compensates for the cold engine and meters fuel out more > slowly than requested by me, the lead foot in the family, so that the > engine doesn't smoke. If you try real hard and push the pedal past the > little stop that tells you you're asking the engine for everything it's > got RIGHT NOW, it'll poof a little grey cloud behind you at the green > light on a cold winter morning or right after start on a normal > temperature range day. Otherwise you can't tell the difference from > looking at this car if it's the gasoline-powered version or the diesel > unless you're a TDI afficionado and looking for the right-rear badge. I bought a copy of VAG-COM, and did the EGR mod. If you haven't done so yet, do so. It improved cold starts and mileage. Essentially this is just changing a value in EEPROM. > (Yes, we've had VW TDI fans come out of the woodwork from EVERYWHERE... > even the fast-food attendant asked us, "TDI? Coooool..." the other day.) Every time I've ever had to buy fuel at a truck stop, I've had someone ask me "is that little car really a diesel?...cool!" > The only time we've ever had it be sluggish to start was after it sat > outside in -10F weather overnight. It still started, but it sputtered > and strained for a few blocks (with my wife driving it gingerly) until > it got a little bit warmer. Yes it takes a little getting used to starting in cold weather, but I haven't had any problems, just drive off slowly with the rpm's below 2500 and let it warm up. > Additionally, we're in Denver, CO so daily life is held at 6000' above > mean sea level. The turbo means that this engine continues to produce > close to its rated horsepower and torque well up into the Colorado > mountains, when we go up there. > > NONE of our gasoline engined cars has ever been able to climb the Front > Range like this car can. Only friends and relatives driving huge V8's > have reported the ability to climb grades at the speeds and endurance > that this little wagon can. (Hmm, well I guess one friend's Audi with > the large V6 in it also does well... heh heh... hmm, that was a fun ride!) > > So turbocharging, complete with it's dangers of higher maintenance costs > and possible longevity problems, brings with it an added bonus for us here. > > This is a medium sized wagon. It likes doing more than 70 MPH (shhh, > don't tell anyone), and feels like most German cars like it's riding on > rails at 100 MPH. (HUSHHHH!) It's not your typical "econo-box"! It's > certainly not an SUV but it can haul almost as much in the huge cargo > area, and has nice touches throughout. Yep, its like driving a mini-BMW but with excellent fuel economy. > So my question for all the science and technology gurus of the PICList is: > > Why haven't diesels really caught the eye of consumers wishing to be > more respectful of their use of foreign oil? I ask myself the same question all the time. We wouldn't have the problems we have now if everyone drove these little gems of efficiency. > I've also been reading that maintained properly, typical lifetimes of > modern diesel engines can range as high as 300,000 miles. > (www.tdiclub.com is a nice site about all the VW TDI engines.) TDI's require a bit more care in feeding and maintence, which makes them better suited for the DIY maintenance crowd. > My family has gotten well over 200,000 miles out of standard > Detroit-built gasoline-powered cars, but just hearing that 300,000 mile > number makes me smile and want to shoot for it on this car. We may not > make it, but we do drive our cars until they're dead or totaled in > accidents... trading up cars all the time is a great way to be broke, I > figure. I'm 33 and have owned only three cars including the TDI...the other two I still have. Why people need new cars every three years is beyond me. > One answer as to why people don't seem to buy many passenger car diesels > would seem to be: "Diesel prices are higher." In the city at > predominently gasoline stations, this is true. I think its because people see diesels as being smelly and underpowered, which with the VW's is not the case. People will start to catch on when unleaded is $4.00 a gallon in the US. > We typically pay anywhere from $0.10 to $0.20 more a gallon for the > priveledge of driving our diesel car. However, this basically means > that our cost is a wash with an equally capable gasoline powered wagon, > because of the lower fuel consumption. Up until this year diesel fuel was always cheaper than unleaded. > I swear... I see at least one Chevy Suburban a day with a "Support Our > Troops" sticker on it. And a single driver with no passengers. Can't > these people think for themselves and find alternatives TODAY besides > whining that Hybrids are no good and that they're waiting for Fuel Cells > before becoming even partially responsible? Ignorance is the only reason for this. The modern diesel engines available now aren't anything like they used to be. > I'll close with saying, yes... I drive an SUV. A small one. And my > mind was anywhere but "fuel crisis" when I bought it. It's a Jeep > Cherokee (the original, not the Grand) and I really do need its 4WD > capabilities to get to mountaintop radio installations on very bad > roads. It's five years old and has 92,000 miles on it. Funny, I have one of those too, a '97 and put 257,000 miles on it. It still is in good shape but when gas prices started rising, I couldn't stand throwing my money away to line some terrorist-sponsoring prince's pocket so I decided to do what little I could do: that is, bought a fuel-efficient VW TDI. Right now, the difference in fuel economy offsets the car payment which I didn't have previously. Regards, Bob -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist