FWIW Posts on this thread 18 people + me 52 posts + mine Median size = 4 kB Average size /person ~ 12 kB All OT since 7 July incl this thread 170+ Median size all OT 4 kB Approx % of OT due to this thread 30% Increase in OT volume and numbers due to this thread over this period. ~ 40% So > However I think that this is Totally inappropriate for the PICList As you are entitled to. About 20 people actively don't seem to. Multiply that by the (unknown & variable ) silent/lurker ratio. Appropriateness of thread as it has become is not necessarily appropriateness as it began. That it might become as it has was reasonably probable. I suspect you may not really care about motivations or cautions but, fwiw. these are from the original post: > It'll be all through the news shortly no doubt - the point of > posting > this is to direct the attention of people who may feel they can be > useful in some capacity or other at this early stage. and > I'm sure the admin don't want a wide ranging discussion on the > larger > issues (alas) but I imagine expressions of concern may be valid. > Whatever's happened, there are going to be sad, dead, injured, > bereaved, shocked and more people. ... Thoughts, prayers or > whatever > well appreciated I'm sure. If you are upset by the concept of a "heads up" re the need for 'thoughts, prayers etc' then i can see that the thread may annoy you. You might wish to look at the subjects that i have been posting on of late. ___________________________ > No I don't condone this, but need to ask what the hell did anyone > expect > You invade a country and kill innocent people. > If anybody did it to your country would not you be considering > revenge for your wife/child/brother/sister/best friend, > I'm sure what was left of your government would. All others: Read slowly, think long, shoot straight and in the right direction. Absolutely. When the evil British, egged on by the warmonger Churchill, stuck their noses into the busines of the nice Germans, who after all were only after Liebesraum, in 1939 and said they'd declare war on them if they didn't behave the way the interfering British wanted them to, what did the British expect in return? If the british were silly enough to have troops in France they could surely expect that they might get in the way of German weaponry which was doing things that surely were of no busines of the British. The Battle of Britain (nicely and elegantly remembered yesterday with 3 magnificent aircraft and 1,000,000 poppies), 'The Blitz' (civilian targetted terror campaign, lest you forget) and more were only due response, surely. When the interfering meddling US crossed the Atlantic to also attempt to teach Hitler how to behave in matters that were surely none of their business, what sort of response did they hope for other than what they got? And so now, when the British enter a country with the general approval of the very significant majority [*1] who have been oppressed and murdered and worse in their (literally) hundreds of thousands for decades, when they move to protect minorities [2] who have previously been destroyed en masse by means decried by all civilised persons (if not by theior governments :-( )[3] and not considered kosher by *ANY* civilised people for use against military targets, let alone civilians in ones own country, and whose lands have been re-engineered (in reprisals for their appeal for freedom), on a scale that would make even Robert Mugabe cheer with approval [4], when they face death and disfigurement while representatives of the previous minority rulers seek to drive them out and discredit their deeds so that (presumably) they can seek to return to their rapine murderous domination of the majority, and when they so fail to convey the very substantial merit in a mixed bag of actions to intelligent minds in their own communities that said members can feel it appropriate to ask questions like this answer is probably not answering [5], then of course they can expect no less than that some of their own citizens (probably), 3rd generation Englismen (probably) who have come to the land because of what it has to offer, grown fat on the benefits of their adopted country and then plotted to bite (and kill and maim) the hand that feeds them. Struth cobber! (Borrowed from across the pond, since we don't have an exclamation of sufficiently bemused wonderment). > And if you include the fact that many people across the world > think it was orchestrated to steal their oil One would need to be terminally naive to exclude that possibility. One would need to be terminally myopic to not also look at the greater picture. It would be interesting to see a graph of the annual Iraqi death rate. I imagine that it would be highly informative to know how many of those in any period were either members of the elite militaery (eg Republican Guard) or compelled cannon fodder who had to fight for a cause that they fundamentally opposed. (Just as many Taleban frontline fighters were people who had the choice of possibly dying at the frontline or definitely dying, albeit possibly somewhat more slowly and unpleasantly, in their villages.] [6] And how many in each period were those who were silly enough or unlucky enough to be considered anti-Bath.[7] > Certainly WMD were not found Indeed. And? > Just like to thank Russell for bringing this to the PICList and > doubling > traffic once again See above. A similar surge occurs as each new major OT thread runs its course. This is one of the larger ones - but eg "police LADAR" ran to about twice the vi=olume that this one has. > Will it ever end, Yes. > don't think I can take OT much longer Suggestion: Provided that you don't get the digest version, simply filter to trash those subjects that disturb your world view or whatever. If you do get digest version consider getting eg GMail solely to handle this sort of thing. RM [1] cf prior Sunni/Shiite population ratios and balance of power. Also cf Bath 'party' [2] Kurds, Marsh Arabs. [3] Poison & "nerve" gas, in this instance used against Kurdish civilians. FWIW things are never as clear cut as they may 1st seem - an interesting read. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_attack [4] Draining of swamps, home of 'Marsh Arabs' as reprisal for siding with US during 'Desert Storm'. The US encouraged the civilian population to rise up against SH but then provided no subsequent support or protection. War is hell. 'Peace' can be too. [5] Opp Cit [6] Private discussions with a long time rsident. Also common knowledge and common sense. [7] If one doesn't know this then one can conclude anything one likes about the situation in Iraq and feel justified. -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist