yes, I figured it out, not only was I not connecting PGD and PGC, but I was not providing enough voltage, as you need to have the ICD2 connected to both the computer and the wall. Thanks Olin for giving me assistance. -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist