I've been looking at the AVR Tiny line and Atmel has come up with a really nice concept - debugWIRE. Its basically a single pin debug interface - they use the reset pin (equiv of mclr/). This seems like a great way to get in-circuit debugging support into low pin count packages. No need for special and pricey header chips like microchip does. every new tiny supports debugWIRE. I guess the downside is that the jtagice mkII costs $300. Is microchip doing anything like this? I'm seriously considering bagging the 18 pin and smaller PICs for Tinys. Phil __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/ -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist