Since the new PIC offerings haven't impressed me, I have been considering other options. ATMEL was kind enough to give me an AVR Butterfly. It has a 6 terminal ISP connector. Is there a simple programmer I can put together for it? The AVR device on it is an atmega169. I'll also need some software to drive the programmer. I know if I do defect I'll need to get an STK500 and/or an ICE, but for now I just want to blink the LCD or beep the speaker. Any links/suggestions? Thanks, Bob -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist