Phil, For me it was only machine code for the first years. We used Fortran and=20 some people used C on the Nord 100 at our physics department but I stick=20 to the hex entry display on my self built 6800 system. I had some=20 friends that had an Apple but I couldn't afford one but when the=20 Commodore VIC-20 came I bought one and then Basic and Assembler for the=20 wonderful 6502 was possible. I have never been that interested in the=20 big systems and have done very little on them. The AVR is the best uP I ever worked with. The company is not. *Very*=20 bad and *very* bad reps at least here in Sweden. The PIC is second=20 best, the company is great, sample service is great. With the 18F and=20 dsPIC C and other HLL works fine on them and for most people there is no=20 need for anything else then the HLL. You still have to understand the=20 details of the uP but the HLL also takes care of a lot of stuff for you.=20 Just as it should. If you want complete understanding you should write=20 machine code but I seldom here anyone suggestion that to someone new to=20 the uP.... ;-) /Ake phil B wrote: >gee, didn't mean to come across as upset - far from >it! I got a chuckle out of it. I've written a ton of >PIC assembler and am getting tired of getting the >btfsx sense wrong or being in the wrong bank. That's >why I use the simulator on little snippets of code - >too make sure I got it right. PICs are amazing but >the instruction set basically sucks. A C compiler >really does make it a lot easier for the average >programmer.=20 > >btw, my first code was Basic on an RCA Spectra 70 in >1971 but I really dont count that as programming.=20 > >--- Ake Hedman wrote: > > =20 > >>Phil, >> >>You are right. I wrote my first code early 1980 so >>you beat me with four=20 >>years. ;-) >> >>I also still write a lot of assembler still but not >>for any religious=20 >>reasons. I just try to use the tool I think is best >>for the job at=20 >>hand. For me it would be stupid to write all the >>code for a 18F258 in=20 >>assembler. I can understand if one or maybe two K >>of it was in=20 >>assembler because of some special needs. But as >>always this is up to the=20 >>person doing the job. I can't see that one way or >>the other should be=20 >>wrong even if I'm convinced that 32K C is easier to >>maintain and debug=20 >>then 32K assembler. >> >>Sorry if I upset you in any way. It was not my >>intent! >> >>/Ake >> >>phil B wrote: >> >> =20 >> >>>I probably saw the light before you were >>> =20 >>> >>programming!=20 >> =20 >> >>>I got hooked on C in 1976 on a PDP-11/45 running >>> =20 >>> >>Unix >> =20 >> >>>V6. (it had 256K of RAM and supported 16 >>> =20 >>> >>concurrent >> =20 >> >>>users. those were the days. sigh...). =20 >>> >>>But there is no substitute for understanding the >>>machine architecture. I still write lots of code >>> =20 >>> >>in >> =20 >> >>>ASM. >>> >>>Sorry for helping the thread to veer OT... >>> >>>Phil >>> >>>--- Ake Hedman wrote: >>>=20 >>> >>> =20 >>> >>>>You have seen the light... ;-) >>>> >>>>Cheers >>>>/Ake >>>> >>>>phil B wrote: >>>> >>>> =20 >>>> >>>> =20 >>>> >>>>>While I prefer to understand the chip to a depth >>>>> =20 >>>>> >>>>> =20 >>>>> >>>>that >>>> =20 >>>> >>>> =20 >>>> >>>>>only asm allows, it is completely valid that some >>>>> =20 >>>>> >>>>> =20 >>>>> >>>>one >>>> =20 >>>> >>>> =20 >>>> >>>>>whould prefer to code in C. The benefits of C >>>>> =20 >>>>> >>are >> =20 >> >>>>>very real. >>>>> >>>>>As part of evaluating cc5x, I rewrote my driveway >>>>>sensor logger code in C (ds1302-SPI, relay, >>>>> =20 >>>>> >>serial >> =20 >> >>>>>I/O). It took all of about 3 hours vs the 2 days >>>>> =20 >>>>> >>>>> =20 >>>>> >>>>to >>>> =20 >>>> >>>> =20 >>>> >>>>>do the asm version (and I borrowed a lot of asm >>>>> =20 >>>>> >>>>> =20 >>>>> >>>>code >>>>>from previous projects). Granted, some time was >>>>saved >>>> =20 >>>> >>>> =20 >>>> >>>>>because I was writing the program the second time >>>>> =20 >>>>> >>>>> =20 >>>>> >>>>but >>>> =20 >>>> >>>> =20 >>>> >>>>>not having to worry about details like the screwy >>>>>conditional instructions of the PIC is a big >>>>> =20 >>>>> >>>>> =20 >>>>> >>>>benefit. >>>> =20 >>>> >>>> =20 >>>> >>>>>Phil >>>>> >>>>>--- Jan-Erik Soderholm >>>>> =20 >>>>> >>>>> =20 >>>>> >>>> >>>> =20 >>>> >>>> =20 >>>> >>>>>wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> =20 >>>>> >>>>> =20 >>>>> >>>>>>Hasan A. Khan wrote : >>>>>> >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> >>>>>>>Executing: "C:\Program >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> >>Files\bknd\CC5X\CC5X.EXE" >> =20 >> >>>>>>>SAMPLE1.C -CC -fINHX8M -p16F628 -I"C:\Program >>>>>>>Files\bknd\CC5X" -a -L -Q -V -FM +reloc.inc >>>>>>>Error : Unable to open file 'reloc.inc' >>>>>>> >>>>>>>why can't the compiler find it? >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>> >>>>>>Does it exist at all ? >>>>>> >>>>>>Jan-Erik. >>>>>> >>>>>>PS: >>>>>>You also wrote : >>>>>>" One thing I learned was that I didn't have to >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> >>>>use >>>> =20 >>>> >>>> =20 >>>> >>>>>>assembler..." >>>>>> >>>>>>No, but why not ? >>>>>>You are using a 16F628. Not that much memory. >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> >>And >> =20 >> >>>>>>you'll >>>>>>probaby learn the chip faster with assembler >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> >>then >> =20 >> >>>>>>with C. >>>>>>Have you written anything in (PIC) assembler ? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>--=20 >>>>>>http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive >>>>>>View/change your membership options at >>>>>>http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist >>>>>> >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> >>>>> =09 >>>>>Discover Yahoo!=20 >>>>>Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online and >>>>> =20 >>>>> >>>>> =20 >>>>> >>>>more. Check it out!=20 >>>> =20 >>>> >>>> =20 >>>> >>>>>http://discover.yahoo.com/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> =20 >>>>> >>>>> =20 >>>>> >>>>--=20 >>>>--- >>>>Ake Hedman (YAP - Yet Another Programmer) >>>>eurosource, Brattbergav=E4gen 17, 820 50 LOS, Sweden >>>>Phone: (46) 657 413430 Cellular: (46) 73 84 84 102 >>>>Company home: http://www.eurosource.se =20 >>>>Kryddor/Te/Kaffe: http://www.brattberg.com >>>>Personal homepage: http://www.eurosource.se/akhe >>>>Automated home: http://www.vscp.org >>>> >>>> >>>>--=20 >>>>http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive >>>>View/change your membership options at >>>>http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist >>>> >>>> =20 >>>> >>>> =20 >>>> >>> =20 >>> >=3D=3D=3D message truncated =3D=3D=3D > > > > =09 >__________________________________=20 >Do you Yahoo!?=20 >Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.=20 >http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 > =20 > --=20 --- Ake Hedman (YAP - Yet Another Programmer) eurosource, Brattbergav=E4gen 17, 820 50 LOS, Sweden Phone: (46) 657 413430 Cellular: (46) 73 84 84 102 Company home: http://www.eurosource.se =20 Kryddor/Te/Kaffe: http://www.brattberg.com Personal homepage: http://www.eurosource.se/akhe Automated home: http://www.vscp.org --=20 http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist