>> How can that be any less secure than using a pin at an ATM? > > Because the PIN at ATMs is checked back with the bank, not from the > card itself? Reading a stripe is > straightforward, and it's just a question of decoding it (not > trivial, but not impossible). Transaction from swipe machine to bank is done "while you wait" using (s0 far mainly) phone line connection - takes about 10 seconds. PIN confirmation can therefore be done with bank. RM -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist