Alan,

On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 14:59:05 -0000, Alan B. Pearce wrote:

> The bit that amuses me about this is that NZ has been using Pins on swipe cards in shops for something 
approaching 20 years. 

Much smaller market, much easier to make changes and install new equipment.  There may well be more retail 
outlets in the UK than there are people in NZ!  :-)

> How can that be any less secure than using a pin at an ATM?

Because the PIN at ATMs is checked back with the bank, not from the card itself?  Reading a stripe is 
straightforward, and it's just a question of decoding it (not trivial, but not impossible).  With "Chip & PIN" 
I believe the PIN is on the chip, but you have to ask it nicely before it will reveal it (and in fact I wonder 
whether it ever does, or just tells the reader whether it's right or wrong).  This is guessing, by the way - I 
don't have any inside knowledge, but the thing is that a stripe is a recording medium, the chip is (or can be) 
a computer, so you don't have to reveal the PIN (or anything else) to the reader, the chip can make the 
comparison without the data leaving the card.  Imagine the difference between having a memory chip connected 
to the card's interface pads, versus having a PIC and memory, with the PIC connected to the pads and the 
memory only accessible to the PIC.
 
> I couldn't get over how antiquated the UK banking system is when I moved here in '97.

Then nip across the pond and be even more startled by how even more antiquated the US banking system is - they 
don't even have chips on cards, and when paying a cheque into an ATM you have to fill in a paying-in slip 
first!  (My girlfriend, in New York, is still paid by cheque, and has to do this every payday - I have been 
paid electronically in every job for the past 30+ years).  If I go into my bank and pay in a cheque, I post 
the cheque itself into a slot, and it scans it and shows it to me on the screen, and will print an image of it 
on the receipt-slip.

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


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