A LED will ususally operate as an (somewhat insensitive) sensor if pushed. RP Is anyone aware of a surface mount photo transistor (or other optical sensor) that is available on tape packaged face down ? We currently use 0805 LEDs supplied in that manner but I haven't found a sensor. Volumes are too high for hand placement but not high enough to influence a semi supplier. Steve. -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist