> Marcel,
> Thanks for the info and the pointer to the MChip forum.
> I guess what I'm still having trouble understanding
> is how you add the delay code to the beginning of the code
> if you can't program the device in the first place???
> I'll go the the MChip forum right away.
> Thanks!!!
> Carey
> 

The first thing to know about this is that I am *no expert*.

That being said, I would guess that the first time you program a chip, 
it is presumably blank - all ones or zeros - and any code that executes 
will not disturb life as we know it.

Another caveat is how long your chip is powered up before trying to 
program it.  If it is a lengthy time then the delay idea might not work 
too well.  This suggests a related idea; if you can tolerate it in your 
project, you could have your code watch some pin and stay in a tight 
loop until that pin is in the right state.  This assumes that the 
"right" state is not present in the programmer.

The whole thing does seem like a "missed opportunity" for Microchip, to 
put it kindly.  As Olin Lathrop has pointed out, using the little 10Fxxx 
chips  in SOT packages can be a difficult experience if also trying to 
include ICSP.

By all means, do check out the Microchip forum.  There are occasionally 
thoughtful inputs from Microchip employees there (a lot more than here 
it seems) and you may learn something useful.

Again, good luck!
MD

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