Just some thoughts for Olin's EasyProg and ProProg. 

For ProProg, price of US$299 is not a problem. I actually proposed to 
my Head of Division to buy the ProProg for possibly better ICSP 
quality than Promate II+ICSP. But when he looked at the chips 
supported, he said no since the chips supported are too few and it does
not supported his old projects using the PIC16C621A/622A. Some important
chips to support are the 16F87xA and PIC16F7x. So we will stick to Promate 
II+ICSP now. Actually the production team wants to move to off-line 
programming due to the fact that ICSP slows the throughput. I have not
tried the Promate III yet and seems that the direction is to give up
the ICSP altogether and use the gang programmer. The fact that Microchip
charges US$0.05 more for the tape-an-reel version than the bulk (tube) 
version does not help here. I think this is quite ridiculous since it is
cheaper than US$0.05 to outsource the reel process.

In the website, I do not see a casing for the ProProg. Is it true?
A nice PDF datasheet including all the things scattered all over
the embedinc website will help to sell as well. :)

As for the EasyProg, the chip support is still an issue. It seems
that Kitsrus K128/182/149c support much more chips, even the old OTP
chips. And it seems to me the software is constantly upgraded.

A GUI may be good to have as well for EasyProg. 

I think the major issue for EasyProg is the price. Actually maybe 
it is a good idea to omit the ZIF (like Kit 182) and use a machine
socket like PICKit 1. I use another machined IC socket with the DIP
PIC chip to form a pseudo DIP PIC. So you only stress the machined 
IC socket but not the PIC itself. I have done more than 100 
insertions and the PICKit 1 socket is still alive. :)

PCB cost can be significantly reduced by making them in other
countries. When I was in US, the lab used to make prototype PCBs
in US or Canada. Then we found that to make the PCBs in China
was much cheaper and the shipment was actually faster. They make
professional 2-layer boards and quality is actually better. 
4-layer boards are not so cheap and so good though for that
particular company. It becomes a good business for them so that 
they start to accept credit card and use FedEx.

On a side note, I found one Chinese website selling fully
assembled RS232 only ICD2 clone for RMB260 (US$32). This includes 
the ICD2 with casing, RS232 cable, Power supply and ICSP cable.
>From the picture shown the quality is not bad since mostly
they are using SMD components and the layout is not bad.
Of course I will not buy it or recommend anyone to buy it due
to IP issues. But it just give us a rough concept that the cost
of things can go down in China. Microchip licensed one company
to produce full ICD2 in China and it sells for RMB800 (US$98).
I think Kitsrus also produces its product in China.

Xiaofan 


>Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 07:56:07 -0500
>From: olin_piclist@embedinc.com (Olin Lathrop)
>
>Chen Xiao Fan wrote:
>> Pickit 1 used two pins for control the boost converter. Why not use the
>> same idea for EasyProg? Okay I see there are not enough pins left. Then
>> why not use a 28-pin IC?  Okay then that is another EasyProg. :)
>
>The EasyProg is meant to be low cost.  A switching power supply would have
>cost more somewhere.  It was cheaper and simpler to specify high enough
>input voltage, then linearly regulate that down as needed.  It's hard to
>beat a 7805 in simplicity, cost, and robustness, even though it may waste a
>few 100mW.
>
>On the other hand, the ProProg is a brick outhouse industrial strength
>design where utility and robustness were more important than price.  It
does
>have a switching power supply, which is controlled by a 10F204.  It also
>uses a 28 pin instead of 18 pin controller PIC, which allows for tri-state
>output control, voltage readback, and a few other features.  However, at
>$295 each these are out of range for most hobbyists.
>
>
>*****************************************************************
>Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
>(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com
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