As a newbie, I'll throw in $0.02. I started by purchasing Myke Predko's 
book. I thought the combination of the included PCB, CD, and the book 
itself would be a good investment. Well, the book and CD (well, the code 
examples) are really good, but I skipped building the El-Cheapo.

Instead, I went to the 'local' electronics store here in down-town 
Toronto, and picked up a $10 (canadian) logic probe kit, and the 
DIYKit128 USB ICSP and ZIFF socket option. as a partial Kit (all SM 
components pre-mounted). This kit was $50 IIRC, + $12 for the Ziff (3M). 
Then also some solder, a soldering iron, etc.

I tackled the logic probe first, followed by the Kit, and then tried 
some of the experiments in the book. As I posted recently, getting a 
Serial interface to the LCD has been my major learning curve though. 
Struggled getting things to work. I can say that I have certainly gained 
a lot in struggling through the LCD project, but I would probably have 
given up if the hurdle had been building the programmer.

I would say that in my personal case, my biggest obstacle to getting "on 
top of things", is the fact that I have no access to someone who can 
physically have a look at my circuit/code, and give tips and pointers. 
If only there were a "club" or something I could take my mess to for 
someone to scrutinize and ctriticize. I drive past Celestica almost 
every day, and I often wonder whether I should stop and see if I can 
look up Myke Predko......

Rolf

John J. McDonough wrote:

>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Jan-Erik Soderholm" <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com>
>Subject: RE: [PIC]El Cheapo PIC Programmer
>
>
>  
>
>>*My* general tip is to get something that works out-of-the-box (no
>>matter if it's the Wisp628 or something else), and move on to
>>your *real* projects. It's just not worth it beeing stuck in
>>tool-troubles...
>>    
>>
>
>I'm not so sure I agree with that 100%.  It depends a lot on the individual.
>Especially for hobbyists.
>
>I see a huge advantage to rolling your own -- confidence.  Not everyone has
>been through making hundreds of circuits work.  Most hobbyists have done a
>few, at best.  There are a LOT of people making their first foray into
>melting solder.
>
>For *some* of them, there is a lot to be gained by going through the
>struggles of making something work.  Not only in what it learned
>technically, but what is learned about their own capability.  In some ways,
>the more of a pain it is getting the thing to work, the better!
>
>You have seen plenty of folks who can't get over the hump of moving to ICSP,
>for example.  (In this, the Wisp628 is a GREAT thing).  The advantages are
>huge, but to a lot of hobbyists, it's just too hard, too complicated, for
>professionals only, whatever the excuse.  But if you can roll your own
>programmer, there is some chance that you will notice that it doesn't have
>to be all that hard.
>
>Ditto with moving on the the next PIC.  Lots of folks got a 16F84 programmer
>years ago, and have stuck to the 84 partly because they believe that
>programming anything else is going to be "hard".  No matter what you or Olin
>or I say, they are going to believe that until they finally roll up their
>sleeves and try it.  The more confidence they build in doing things
>themselves, the sooner that day will come.
>
>And lets face it, building a programmer isn't that big of a deal.  Once you
>read the app note, pretty much anyone with the barest knowledge of
>electronics can design one of the things.  Of course, the folks that NEED to
>design their own are exactly the folks who will be afraid to.  But with
>hundreds of simple designs out on the net, it's pretty easy for someone to
>go halfway and replicate someone else's circuit.
>
>All that being said, there is still a lot of merit in getting a programmer
>that works and getting on with it.  Even getting a Wisp shipped from the
>Netherlands it still turns out pretty cheap.
>
>--McD
>
>
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