On Sat, Oct 16, 2004 at 05:55:23PM +1300, Jinx wrote:
> > >I think the unmoderated channel is a great idea Byron
> > > I would most certainly be listening in on the regular list but value 
> > > freedom of speech to the extreme
> 
> I have no objection to people speaking their minds - BUT is that a
> forum either relevant to or to be provided by those that provide this
> meeting place ? That is, this one here which I primarily use and want for
> exchanging inforrmation about PIC micros and associated engineering

Jinx,

We have an OT channel that talking about everything from rocketry to politics
to GOD. It's just natural that when you have a community the varied and yet
this close, the other topic of discussion are going to come up. I'm actually
proposing a true home for such discussion. 

> 
> As far as those topics that fall under the general PIClist grouping are
> concerned, there is no need or place for uncivility, flame wars or
> whatever. The rules are quite clear about behaviour/language/posting.
> If people want something a little more on the edge where they can
> indulge in profanity, gossip and punch-ups they can start PIClistXreme

But of course we still have them. The problem is not only what is said,
but how it's said, and how it's perceived. Which means that not only do you
have to moderate what you write, you also have to moderate based on the 
perceptions of a potentially fickle audience.

I mean would we even be having this discussion if Olin had used the
word 'interesting' instead of 'dumber'?

> 
> I have joined and left several other groups because they are such
> godawful places. No direction, no moderation, open slather, and
> frankly simply pathetic excuses for "discussions"

On the other hand a system with no relief valve eventually blows up
just like the PICLIST does with seemingly increasing frequency.

This proposed UNMOD channel would be invisible unless you specifically
subscribed to it. It would be a place to take topics that have gone
way off topic and the occasional funny or silly comment that in an open
forum could start a rumble. It'll aleviate the moderators of the task
of having to kick people out (unless they violate the traditional channels
of the list) or having personal moderators. It'll make their lives easier
because it'll curtail the silly traffic. It'll limit the silly tit for tat
discussions about non PIC non electronic topics that come up from time to 
time. In fact this thread here would be a perfect candidate for the UNMOD
channel. But right now it's in OT because there's no other place for it 
to go.

Just to repeat: UNMOD would be unmoderated. Everyone would be unsubscribed
to it. It needs to be server filtered if possible so that you never receive
UNMOD messages unless you specifically ask to subscribe to it.

I'm just proposing a solution to the same kinds of problems that I see
in the Linux newsgroups on USENET. There used to be a time where the trouble
makers would come through in waves. But not they are confined for the most
part to the Linux advocacy group, where they spend every day hurling
invectives against Linux advocates, and where said advocates engage in
a raging discussion on a daily basis. But because of it the other Linux
newsgroups are more clean and on topic.

Just some thoughts...

BAJ
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