----- Original Message ----- From: "Mcgee, Mark" Subject: RE: [PIC] Newbie help getting started > BUT I use a USB to serial converter for my laptop Almost without exception, USB to serial converters DO NOT work with PIC programmers. The exception are proprietary PIC programmers that include a second PIC (or other processor) on the programmer itself. This response bounced (I sent it from the wrong email address) so in re-sending it I have an opportunity to also reply to Jan-Erik. Jan-Erik prefers to spend some money to avoid some trouble. I can sympathize with that, and I do it myself sometimes ... maybe even most of the time. The sort of programmer Jan-Erik likes is exactly the sort that might work with a USB to serial converter. The vast majority of the serial port programmers, however, will not work with ANY USB to serial converter. This is not because of some flaw in the USB to serial converter; it is simply how these programmers use the serial port (some might say misuse). As I mentioned earlier, there are issues of keeping things updated with proprietary hardware, although if you are willing to learn Python and JAL, Wouter has a good way around them. On the other hand, programming a PIC is mind-numbingly simple. Since I don't do this for a living, I am much more inclined to build something rather than to buy it. However, if you are limited to a USB port, then I would have a hard look at Wouter's Wisp628. The source is available, even if he selected the most obscure languages possible. The thing is amazingly cheap. It seems as if a lot of people use it. I know you are a little concerned about in circuit serial programming, but I would have a very hard look at it. Few of us can get our programs right the first time, and ICSP saves a huge amount of time. An alternative is to simply wire up a socket to Wouter's programmer. I don't happen to like Wouter's MCLR circuits, look at the Microchip ICSP documentation (30277b.pdf - only pay attention to TB016 - the rest isn't relevant to you) and read my appendix on in-circuit serial programming. If you use one of those clips like Wouter shows in his pictures, the only addition to your circuit is a diode. Personally, I like to use a 6 pin SIP connector, with one of the pins filled so I can't get it backward. In either case, the amount of real estate you need is minimal. If you really are pressed for space, in-circuit programming makes the surface mount PICs a little more practical, so it can save you some space. Oh yes, with respect to the Covington programmer or any of the Tait designs. Most of these specify a 2N2222 or some similar transistor. This is entirely non-critical. Any old NPN you can get your hands on will work just fine. Some circuits also specify a PNP. Again, whatever is easy to get will work. This isn't brain surgery. All these transistors do is take the RS232 signal, which will go negative and might not go very far positive, and translate it to (almost) rail to rail. Since the output can only go from ground to supply, virtually anything that looks remotely like a transistor will work. 72/73 de WB8RCR http://www.qsl.net/wb8rcr didileydadidah QRP-L #1446 Code Warriors #35 _______________________________________________ http://www.piclist.com View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist