>> We could be so much more effective if we were able to work towards
>> collective success goals, but that's not wired in our brains... :)

> While we may not be wired for success goals as detailed as co-operating to 
> delay obsolescence, ...

It seems you missed my point here. "Delaying obsolescence" may be a side
effect, but it wouldn't be a goal. The goal would be to create something
(in that example it was about microcontroller circuits, in the end it
probably would be individual well-being), with a minimum of (collective)
effort. 


> ... most of human "civilisation" ...

I find it good that you put that in quotes... :)

> ... IS the result of collective co-operation for the purpose of
> optimising mutual outcomes. 

This is doubtful. I'd say the more common purpose is the optimization of
individual outcomes. Where the collective comes into the individual
considerations it does so mostly because the individual feels dependent on
the collective. It is not for the purpose of an optimized collective
efficiency. It is not for nothing that most of our societies spend most of
their collective efforts in limiting the most ruthless ("successful")
individuals.

Look at anything collective, and you'll find extremely low efficiency.
Traffic, for example. Whether it's on a close to full highway or in a close
to full city, we behave not much smarter than balls in tubes, creating grid
lock or compression waves. If we were smart enough (as a species), we would
be able to realize that if everybody gives in a bit, in the end, everybody
gets to his destination (goal) actually faster. But that doesn't happen.


> The "laws" ...

Good that you bring up the laws. (I know that you meant different laws, but
let me get to the written laws that are not embedded in us but that are the
basis of our communities... :)  That's another example of extreme
inefficiency. How much effort we need to spend to create laws, review laws,
modify laws, enforce laws, and -- most of all -- do things inefficiently
because we need to follow common rules in order to make things /somewhat/
function -- have you ever thought about that? 

A very simple, small example: traffic lights. In order to keep traffic more
or less organized, we have the rule to stop at a red light, and in most
countries with an organized traffic, high penalties are put on running a
red light, no matter whether in a particular situation that was actually
dangerous. So you find yourself sitting there, waiting until green comes
up, with good visibility and knowing you could safely cross -- either
because you think that the risk of getting caught would be too high, or
because you are principled and think that crossing now would be the start
of generalized chaos on the streets. This is not efficient, but it is
necessary in order to make our societies work with a minimum of efficiency.

A more complex example are tax laws. You probably all know only too well
that most countries spend an IMO way too large a fraction of their
collective effort with tax collection -- again, creating, revising,
modifying and enforcing those laws, and individually, making tax reports,
hiring tax consultants and so on. We could all just give our fair share,
couldn't we? And set all that effort free to go towards a more worthwhile
goal (like sitting at the beach with a coconut in your hands)? But we
can't. 


> The "golden suggestion" (in either of its two major forms) is only
> 'common sense'. 

I think the reason why it is the basis of some religions, and the fact that
it has been and continues to be perceived as a revelation and a revolution,
and the fact that it has been mis- and abused, show that it is /not/
hardwired in us.


You want to see /common/ sense? Sit in front of an ant "mountain" (how do
you call those things the ants build?) for a few hours and let their
behavior impress you. Then find a video of a city from above, and compare.
I think they are wired differently than we are... :)

Gerhard
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