>>> What makes you think they're preventable? Some accidents would be hard to prevent without disproportionate effort. BUT The vast majority of accidents are caused by a person doing what they don't usually do and what other people also don't usually do and what nobody is meant to do (eg crossing the centre line). Or by someone doing what they often do but that most other people don't usually do and that most people are never meant to do (eg driving drunk). The 30%+ "drift off accidents" in the US (if the stat I read be true) are surely almost all preventable if there was the will. Assuming suicides are a small fraction (maybe not) then it's inattention or going to sleep. MAYBE also excessive speed for the corner. If you don't rate these as preventable then I guess they're not preventable. As has been pointed out, some people are far safer drivers measured over long periods, than others. Some of this is just plain skill. Much is, I think many will agree, just plain carelessness and/or attitude. For the areas where it's skill (or it's inverse, inability) then fitting the behaviour to the capability should have an effect. The fact that we are not financially or politically prepared to do this does not make them unpreventable - it just means that we don't wish to prevent them for whatever reason. As long as the road death toll hovers within the realm of acceptable social contract we are not liable to get TOO much change. In the US, somewhere around a few percent of total annual death rate is acceptable social contract apparently. What this is traded off against is part of the deal. Vietnam got the US, in the end, years of pain, criticism all round and vast expenditure for no apparent return (although I'd say that the US does appear to be heading towards winning the war in Vietnam based on present trends.) (Unlike eg North Korea where the war looks like it will last far longer). Back at home, in exchange for 60,000 lives pa you get fantastic flexibility, mobility, powerful social and sex symbols and valuable materiel to help maintain the consumer cycle. A fair trade, apparently. (That's all rather cynical of course BUT in fact that is about the tradeoff. How much each person values their own part of the tradeoff and how much they seek to contribute to or reduce the cost is up to them.) Russell McMahon _______________________________________________ http://www.piclist.com View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist