On Jul 29, 2004, at 3:29 PM, Wouter van Ooijen wrote: >>> No PIC stuff, this copy was created by a collegue for teaching C to >>> freshman programmers. For the PIC class next season we will use >>> Windoze/MPLAB on PCs that can be re-installed with a prepared image. >>> Which will probably need to be done each night. >> >> I hope you're kidding about that last line. >> >> Let me get this straight... you're teaching kids to program (future >> engineers and scientists) that are going to either intentionally or >> unintentionally screw up their Windows machines beyond the point of >> repair daily? > > Knowing what students are they will probably try, and knowing what > windows is they will probably do it without intent. I use Netscape > because I can't figure out how to convince IE to connect to the web via > my network, and I am supposed to know something about computers. > >> And then you're going to fix it for them? > > Actually I want the PCs working for my class, whatever was done with > them yesterday. And the next-day teacher wants the same (for a > different > class). > >> They're >> going to have to do that in the real world. Maybe even on their first >> day on the job! > > This class is supposed to teach assembly to students that have never > used anything but Java (and a little C) before. If I wanted a class on > PC maintenance or tool exploration I would want a fresh clean PC to > start with, so I'd use the overnight reinstall anayway, but with a > different image. NB this system allows for a differnt image for each > class. > >> -- you're fired, since this classroom is your job, you'll be given a >> failing grade and will be told to leave for the rest of the semester, >> with no chance of appeal. > > But I'd have to figure out who did it. > > OK, I was kidding somewhat, but it I definitely like the idea that > whatever was done to the PCs the previous day, I know they will work > when I start my class. > > Wouter van Ooijen Oh well, I think my point was that it's a lot of work, and probably won't be all that effective due to the amount of time it will take to reimage the systems every day. It also puts an un-due load on you as the teacher to have to play "IT department". I try to follow a rule that usually works pretty well... fix human problems with humans, fix technology problems with computers. You have a little of both going on: 1. Technology problem is that the OS can't easily be sufficiently locked down to keep a neophyte from damaging it. There are applications out there that do it, but they're not cheap -- and they are usually used by places like schools and universities on a site-wide licensing basis. 2. The human problem is the students doing things they "shouldn't"... and to fix that the only real solution is: a. communication of the "rules" b. serious repercussions when they don't follow previously stated rules. Just like society. It's the best that society has come up with that works in thousands of years... I always get a kick out of us techies trying to beat it. ;-) Especially since the OS (see item #1) wasn't designed with that type of security as a goal. Heh. You might be able to find some relatively inexpensive add-on software that would lock-down the machines, I don't know... but I know places like call centers and other places of work where the PC is considered an appliance just to run a few well-defined applications and nothing more have had such software for a long time now. Depending on how long your school has had PC's, they really should have a handle on that by now... a college I attended in 1993 did and it was (mostly) effective at keeping students from messing up the Windows machines. Of course, the Unix machines were kept aside for "advanced" students who supposedly already knew better by the time they got to work on the fancy Sun boxen... ha! And no, nothing they did stopped someone I knew from compiling nmap from source on the VAX and portscanning the entire internal Class-B network! Heh... but they did take away her account for a semester. Actions/Consequences... Oh ... another thought came to mind... will the software you're using run on a Windows Terminal Server? You could load it on a centralized machine and have the students just pull up virtual sessions from whatever messed-up goofed-up PC's they happen to be sitting at... at least their build environment would be "relatively safe" over on the central box... and you'd have logging of "who did what". -- Nate Duehr, nate@natetech.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList mailto:piclist-unsubscribe-request@mitvma.mit.edu