Russell,,

On Sat, 3 Jul 2004 23:16:58 +1200, Russell McMahon wrote:

> > An off-machine backup is the only way to properly
> > protect against loss of data, and it's not guaranteed
> > even then!
>
> Off machine, not in the same room, not in the same building, not in the same
> block, not in the same city, not ... .
> Not connected live most of the time.
> (Obvious, obvious, fire, large fire, volcano*,...)

Indeed - one thing I've done for clients in the past is disaster planning, and you have to ask: "How big a
disaster do we plan for?"  It goes from machine failure (or theft!), through loss of use of the office (fire,
flood, power cut), loss of the building and its contents (bigger fire, bomb, building collapse, air crash), to
something city-wide.  You have to decide how far you are going to go.  A firm I used to work for had backups
stored underground, in a former slate-quarry about 60 miles from London.  There was a sort-of pyramid of
backup data, with daily copies kept in the computer-room in a fireproof safe, weeklies moved to another
company site about 5 miles away, and monthlies taken to the quarry.  We never actually needed any more than
the dailies, but other firms I've been involved with have had to resort to using "standby" locations where
equipment is waiting to be used if necessary.  Some incidents (a couple of IRA bombs in the City of London for
example) have resulted in buildings being inaccessible for a number of days, even though they weren't
physically affected, because they were inside a "cordoned-off" area.  If a business relies on things in its
office, this could bring it down.

> If you scoff at "large fire" or functional equivalent ask the Japanese, who
> had their major financial district crash and not get back for weeks -
> phones, power etc.

Quite!

> Even my city lost almost all power for several weeks a
> few years back, entirely due to human stupidity. (I was the first to notify
> the national Civil Defence HQ , at about 2am when it finally went pop. At
> the time the man I got out of bed was very very grumpy. He probably
> appreciated the warning more latterly - but they never said thankyou :-). )

How did that happen then?  Did they run out of change for the meter? :-)

It's not well known that the London Underground system used to have its own electricity generating station
(actually two, the second was a reserve to add extra capacity when it was needed).  Someone who was presumbly
an accountant decided that was too expensive, so they decommissioned them and they now rely on the National
Grid.  So a power cut in London now paralises the transport system that almost everyone uses, as well as the
other effects.  We have a saying for this:  "Penny wise, pound foolish"!

> If you scoff at volcano, ask the Philippinos if they agree with you.
> If you live in California ....
>
> And in my city we haven't seen a live one for 800 years - which means the
> next one is overdue. And we nestle amongst 100 small volcanic cones. The
> last one was 150% larger than all the rest combined. The locals call it
> Rangitoto island. Auckland volcanoes are coming more frequently. The next
> one is due in the next +/- 400 years. (I live slightly outside the hotspot
> zone)(I think). Not many Aucklanders know all this :-).

Not many Aucklanders know where you live?  :-)

> I keep my keyest backups in a sock drawer in a city about 70 miles south of here.

That's funny - I keep a spare pair of socks in my Laptop case!

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England

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