the nsa actually operates their own chip foundry, underground. i saw it on one of the investigative tv shows (i.e., a semi-real one, not "hard copy"). if you buy wafers, and do all the design somewhere else, and only have a small space for packaging (i.e. small volume) i don't think it would take that much. for very, very low volume i'd think 10,000 ft would do it, provided that everything other than the actual chip building was done somewhere else. for low volume, you wouldn't be dealing with very large quantities of hazmat stuff, though you would have some (and there are generally limits on reporting/using hazmats, at low levels it isn't too hard to comply i don't think, provided you send all of your waste off to an approved disposal site which even some of the lab supply companies will do, taking several small bottles in a 5 gallon bucket etc., providing everything is labeled and there aren't radioactive or other "special" waste involved). some of the newer wafer fab stuff is completely sealed and a human never goes in, wafers and chemicals go in and out. some of these fab units are fairly small. as far as large asics go, there may only be a few sites in the world that make them, but those sites make them in high volume and for many customers, and there would be more sites/larger sites if demand dictated it. the number of facilities really isn't a good indicator of how hard something is to do in low volume, for instance half the world supply of epoxy resins came from one "plant" until it burnt down (very possibly in an attempt to create shortage and drive prices up, this has been proven with some other chemical plant "accidents"). a lot of it would depend on knowing what you were getting into and only providing resources/space for the things a given project would actually need. i have heard of people making transistors in their garage...but for chips a clean room is a must though they can be small and some are even modular construction now and go up inside another building, like a warehouse. best bet would be to subscribe to one of the relevant industry journals and check out the sites of companies that make the equipment. of course this equipment is very expensive, both because of quality and sophistication and because it's meant to earn the owner big money. for fairly large, far from state of the art geometries, i'm sure you could do it in a small warehouse - depending on your goals as far as making money, doing research, etc. the basic process systems are fairly simple, other than the need for cleanliness and purity, but all the raw materials are readily available, most even in very small quantities. you definitely need some knowledge of industrial chemistry/hygeine before starting something like this, many of the materials are hazardous and tricky to handle and shouldn't be handled by people who don't know what they are getting into, for waste disposal and safety issues alone. chips that self destruct aren't any big deal, simply including some nitrates and a way to heat them in the package will incinerate the silicon nicely and heat any remaining material to melting and make it a blob (which was accidentally discovered by some materials researchers who i think were using germanium and nitrates to build devices, a little much current and it went poof). such chips are rare outside of highly secure equipment, because they are rather painful to develop and manufacture with, not to mention maintaining such systems is very hard. the majority of things that claim or imply damage if the case is opened are just red-herrings designed to scare the casual cracker away, it's really not practical to make consumer or mass market goods that are that sensitive. any self destruct mechanism built into equipment has a good chance of accidental or mis activation which is a deterrent to using such technology. for instance, if the average users computer wiped the drive or otherwise self destructed to protect sensitive data, system crashes would be a real problem as many might trigger software/hardware designed to detect tampering or probing attempts. just think what would happen when a user forgot a password and guessed too many times, a secure system should assume it's been stolen or otherwise compromised and destruct before it's too late. Charles Craft wrote: > > Too many spy movies on the dish and too many years of watching X Files. :-) > > What's it take to set up a small chip foundry? > I think there have been threads on the PIClist about the government chips that self destruct if > you penetrate the package the wafer is in. > > A commercial chip plant is pretty huge but if you didn't care about quantity or speed how small could you make it? > Aren't there universities where students make their own chips? > Can you make chips in a few thousand square foot warehouse? > > http://www.utwatch.org/oldnews/aas_sematech_6_15_03.html > > Bid to keep Sematech invokes national security > > Proposal for government foundry shows extent of Austin effort to head off a move to New York > By Chuck Lindell > AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF > Sunday, June 15, 2003 > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics > (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics