All AVR's can be programmed with 5 lines directly connected to the parallel port. No programmer needed as such. -----Original Message----- From: pic microcontroller discussion list [mailto:PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU] On Behalf Of William Chops Westfield Sent: Friday, 25 June 2004 3:25 PM (and for some reason, there don't seem to be nearly as many cheap build it yourself programmers for the AVRs, although I can't see any reason why there shouldn't be...) BillW -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads