I also would like to quote the ICVS (international crime victimization survey), often used as the yardstick for comparisons since definitions of "violent crime" vary so widely. Quoting: Overall victimisation The ICVS allows an overall measure of victimisation which is the percentage of people victimised once or more in the previous year by any of the eleven crimes covered by the survey. This prevalence measure is a simple but robust indicator of overall proneness to crime. The countries fall into three bands. Above 24% (victim of any crime in 1999): Australia, England and Wales, the Netherlands and Sweden 20%-24%: Canada, Scotland, Denmark, Poland, Belgium, France, and USA Under 20%: Finland, Catalonia (Spain), Switzerland, Portugal, Japan and Northern Ireland. http://www.minjust.nl:8080/b_organ/wodc/summaries/ob187sum.htm It makes for interesting reading, as well. I should mention that some of the studies I've read do indeed report the US violent crime rate as 4x higher than Australia's, but it is inconclusive as to whether this is due to definitions of violent crime or not. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jake Anderson" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 8:31 PM Subject: Re: [OT]: detecting emergency vehicles > LOL now thats rich > America has the highest rate of gun crime in the world. > and the highest rate of gun deaths > lol 40 000 americans die due to guns each year > 20000 of those are homicides. > > I spose that i understand why you dont seem to care about speeding now, > america is such a violent place to live in the first place it seems. > well good luck, heres hoping you have a natural death in a long long time. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: pic microcontroller discussion list > > [mailto:PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Philip Stortz > > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 4:19 AM > > To: PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU > > Subject: Re: [OT]: detecting emergency vehicles > > > > > > and that was tragic, the gun ban i mean! immediately after that huge > > mistake violent crime INCREASED drastically, surpassing U.S. crime rates > > for the first time, and continued to rise sharply. gun crimes also rose > > sharply. criminals love gun bans, it means if they have a gun they have > > little to fear as they know their victim doesn't! seriously, most > > police and police unions don't support gun bans. we don't need new gun > > laws, we need some of the existing ones to be better enforced, just like > > with most crime problems there are plenty of laws on the books. while > > we have a surplus of laws, we have a shortage of detectives and prison > > space for violent offenders, violent offenders who are often released > > early to make room for non-violent criminals! the priorities are all > > screwed up. a department of justice report on tracing crime guns gives > > a disturbing example (though they don't comment on it in the report), a > > federally licensed gun dealer illegally sold several hundred guns, > > falsifying the documents and saying they were sold to previous customers > > (with their names on the paper work!) and he sold them directly to > > people who were reselling them to violent felons! what did he get, > > about 2 years! for diverting hundreds of guns and putting the names of > > innocent customers on the paper work! remember, this is someone who's > > federally licensed and who's business and records are subject to search > > by the atf at any time. > > > > they finally figured it out when they started recovering some of the > > guns at crime scenes and went to talk to the "owners", i.e. the poor > > people who's name was on the paper work but had usually never even seen > > the gun involved! doubtless these people were harassed and their houses > > searched etc. before it happened enough times for law enforcement to > > realize what was going on. as far as i'm concerned, the guy should be > > doing life, he was an accessory to murder and lessor crimes before the > > fact, hundreds of times, not to mention what he put the people who's > > identities he stole through (better than being shot yes, but something > > that will always show up in a background check of people who've never > > committed more than a traffic violation in their life). this type of > > thing happens all the time with serious crimes. more prisons, more > > cops, and fewer people in prison who don't really belong there, rather > > than letting out violent criminals (after a short course on crime while > > in prison and more reasons to be violent) in order to confine minor non > > violent criminals. like i said, the law has little to do with logic, as > > little as possible it seems. > > > > gun control laws cost lives and liberty, they increase crime and are the > > criminals dream come true, making law abiding citizens sheep ready for > > the wolf. > > > > Howard Winter wrote: > > > > > > Robert, > > > > > > On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 23:57:57 -0400, Robert B. wrote: > > > > > > > These things are for *our* protection, and we should all > > unquestioningly > > > > embrace having a 0.001% less chance of death by redlight. On > > a side note, > > > > in my hometown about 3 years ago they installed a trial one > > of these, but it > > > > was continually shot out (I grew up in rural Kentucky). I > > never realized > > > > the idea caught on elsewhere... I read a few online articles > > about it when > > > > I realized it's for real and I find it disgustingly > > big-brotherish. Maybe > > > > its time to take another trip to the ol' gun shop.... you > > know.... just in > > > > case.... whats that? they're banning those too?! > > > > > > Well here in Britain they've been banned for a number of years > > - I know because I used to shoot :-( > > > > > > However, google for the words: Gatso Vandalism and see what > > people do to get their own back on speed cameras > > > (Gatso being the name of a company that makes the most common, > > radar-triggered, type). > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Howard Winter > > > St.Albans, England > > ---------- > > > > -- > > http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics > > (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics > (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. 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