first:

you are correct.  i've mostly been looking at the programming spec
recently since i've been designing my programmer.  i had ass-u-me-ed
that all of the newer parts were self programmable, but i see that this
one is not.  this is my first pic project, i'm still reading the data
sheet and haven't started programming yet so i haven't read every page
in both manuals yet (i have read every page in the programming spec at
least once).  like i said, i just assumed that all modern pic devices
were capable in this regard, my mistake.  the manual specifically for
the 16f688 does clearly say it can't write it's own program memory more
clearly later in the manual than what you quoted.  like most data
sheets/manuals it could be written more clearly, though it's not bad and
i've definitely seen worse.  gee, please excuse my ignorance (which
would have been very temporary, i do learn rapidly).

second:

 yes, there is a defect in my keyboard, it does not automagically
capitalize, spell check (though the email program does...) or grammar
check.  i am highly dyslexic and dysgraphic - capitalization is actually
harder for me than grammar and nearly as hard as spelling.  when it
really matters, i try to capitalize while typing and check and correct
capitalization before sending (which for me takes substantial effort).
however email is generally considered a casual communication protocol so
no, i don't usually bother with that.  not because i'm lazy, not because
i'm dumb (like many with dyslexia i actually have a genius iq, yeah,
yeah capitalization, here "genius IQ").  get over it, i did a long, long
time ago.  i'm 41 and i don't mind admitting that i repeated
kindergarten, i was lucky my learning problems were spotted and properly
dealt with considering it was the late 60's and early 70's before
learning disabilities were as well understood as they are now.  ten
years earlier or in a different school i probably would have been
labeled "dumb".  be glad you aren't reading my handwriting which is
highly readable but where i randomly use upper and lower case letters
and where i'm not consistent with capitalization even for the same word
when used again.  i was taught cursive/script writing many, many times
but was never able to adapt to it at all.

i had several years of speech therapy and 1 year of eye therapy just to
be able to read.  i read far more slowly than most when i read fiction
(and i read little fiction due to this unfortunately).  however, when i
read dense technical tomes i do so faster and with far better
comprehension than most and am often annoyed at the bad grammar and
syntax use in such technical tomes.  grammar and syntax problems bother
me, capitalization doesn't.  unfortunately i read non-fiction at about
the same rate.  i realize that most people see things in the opposite
way, i.e. that capitalization problems are more annoying than poor
grammar or syntax, but for me it's the opposite.  if my email package
had a capitalization checker i'd use it.  it doesn't so you have to deal
with it unless it's a very, very important communication in which case
it does take me at least twice as long to produce the correctly
capitalized text as does the non-capitalized text (fixing my "run on"
sentences is easier for me, and they are indicative of how i think).

PEBCAK...  if you look at the content of most of my post you'll see that
while the capitalization is poor (mostly absent) the content is
generally good.  judge me anyway you wish, but realize that this is your
problem as much as it is mine.  take the useful content of my post or
don't, but unless you are trained in teaching the dyslexic don't try to
fix that problem of mine.  believe me, i have a highly nonstandard
wetware package and it too is resistant to boot loading. like every one
i have strengths and weaknesses, you've found one of my weaknesses.  no,
it is not being lazy, it is accepting my limitations and not wasting
time fighting them rather than worrying about what i can do "correctly".

even worse possibly, and aggravating the above, i have serious chronic
pain.  the amount of medication i take in a day is truly scary.  because
of my low back, neck and shoulder problems i can't even use the computer
nearly as much as i'd like or i really do hurt myself rather badly.  if
i offer something useful, be glad, if you find it hard to read you
please realize that it's actually harder for me to write the way you'd
like me to than it is for you to read the way i do in fact write.  it's
not an excuse, i have no need to apologize or make excuses, it's an explanation.

in any case, thank you for the technical portion of your response.
since this chip is even less able to self program than i am to
capitalize easily and correctly i'll concentrate on getting the program
right which is usually easy for me.  thankfully the programming
languages i'm familiar with worry about capitalization even less than i
do.  no flames, please.  dysgraphia is a disability like any other.  it
can be compensated for to an extent, but requires far more effort than
it does for the "normal" person.  i do usually try to capitalize
abbreviations correctly, and that's also easier for me to do correctly
than it is for me to correctly capitalize in general.  life's a bitch,
you deal with it and do what you can or you tread water and drown when
you're exhausted.  dysgraphia beats the hell out of other disabilities
like blindness or stupidity so it's no biggie for me to deal with as
long as i don't waste energy fighting it when there are more important
things to do.  seriously, if my email program ever does have a
capitalization, run on sentence, etc. correcting tool i'll use it.  but
it doesn't so you get to see a little of my perspective.

other than the dysgraphia most people agree that i have excellent
communications skills.  i'd encourage you to take things as i do, be
glad for your strengths and other's strengths and don't expect that what
is easy for you is easy for someone else.  i have many skills, and many
deficits like any person, some are more obvious than others,
particularly in email.  gee, i wish the pic16f688 could self program,
and i wish my capitalization skills were better, oh well.  at least i
program and design electronics well, 2 things most people who can easily
capitalize can't easily do.

as you've just seen, when i'm tired i do tend to ramble on a bit.... i
live in the town of sleep deprivation, be glad you don't and you
hopefully never will to the extent that i do.

again, thanks for pointing out that this chip can't self program.  we
all over look things sometimes and this is my first use of a pic and my
first serious electronics work and programming in many, many years.
despite it being something i haven't done for awhile i'm jumping in with
both feet, writing my firmware, writing burning software, designing and
building a burner, and getting things set up for this project in
general.  i made one mistake on the pcb that i've already caught (and i
caught it before they shipped but after they were made), hopefully i
won't make any more serious programming errors on either the  software
to program the chip with the burner i've designed or the actual firmware itself.

Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
>
> Philip Stortz wrote :
>
> > any one happen to have a pic16f688 bootloader?
>
> Hi.
>
> First,
> the data sheet says (page 71) :
>
> -  Data EEPROM memory is readable and writable and
> -  the Flash program memory is readable during normal
> -  operation (full VDD range).
>
> So, the Flash don't seem to be writeable under program control,
> which, AFAIK, prevents the use of a  bootloader.
>
> Didn't you check that before posting ???
>
> Second,
> There seems to be some problem with your kayboard.
> I only got lowercase characters from you, such as
> "i" where there should have been a "I"...
>
> Best Regards,
> Jan-Erik.
--------

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