Just to clarify my setup: I have a 100k pullup on mclr to 5v and a diode to block the Vpp from entering supply like this: [+5v] ---[100k]- ----->|---- [MCLEAR] I don't have any pullups on PGD and PGC but I tried using some 4k7 pullups to no avail. I also tried a small cap from PGC to GND which sometimes gave a slightly different error, but more or less the same. PGM is tied to ground during programming. PGC and PGD aren't connecting to anything in the target circuit. My ICSP cables are about a foot long or so. On the target circuit, there is a LM7805 which normally provides power to circuit. I have a 0.01uF cap near the pic, 47uF on the 7805 input, and a 1uF and 100uF cap declouping other (not connected yet) cicruitry. I have tried power the target pic with my programmer and with it's normal power supply (by disconnecting the supply lines from the ICSP connector). I have a suspicion that the problem is noise maybe, but I have no real means of testing this. Is there anything wrong with the above setup, or is there some way to reduce noise on all the ICSP, such as a series resistor and cap to ground or something? Thanks again! Peace ===== MJ Brush LeftClick.ca Internet Media Services mbrush@[NOSPAM]leftclick.ca ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.