looks like xbasic is definitely the winner. by the way, i won't go near anything newer than windows 98 if i can avoid it, and i know xt pulls all kinds of stuff to protect us dumb users (besides, it will be a cold day in hell when i give micro soft any more money!). i will be running bsd on the x86 box once i get things well set up, and no doubt a good pic programming utility will be one of the first things i write when i learn C, i have a tendency to wind up writing things that do i/o and other "hard" things.... Michael Rigby-Jones wrote: -------- > Xbasic is an open source Visual Basic style language, complete with GUI > designer etc. > http://sourceforge.net/projects/xbasic/ ----------- -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.